2018 Liqui Moly Bathurst 12 Hour, 2-4 Feb

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by peckstar

actually it is a bunch of Ams, apart from scott. silver and bronze ranked drivers. thus unseeded, thus Am's. a number of the other pro-am teams will have two seeded drivers and only 1 am driver



just interesting that DJRTP driver is effectively teams mates with two T8 drivers and the one that scott came into contact with last time they were on track. No point, just an observation

Watson is a factory hired professional

The definition of pro life is a professionally employed driver. Don’t automatically under rate him for his ranking. He may be young but has great speed

My only complaint is I’d like to Ben barnicoat in one of the Mclarens as long he continues with McLaren in 2018, which loooks likely to be confirmed soon

[peckstar]

Watson is a silver ranked driver. If the team did not have Scotty Mc they were be considered an Am Car

I can see the issue here, you are talking under some general rules. I am discussing Bathurst 12 hour definitions

Last year the Bronze drivers were typically about 4 seconds (plus) of the pro drivers. That means a lap every hour, will require multiple timely safety cars to have any chance of staying on the lead lap.

[GregUK]

IIRC Andrew Watson pedalled the McLaren to pole in the BPGT Sprint round at Zolder in 2017. He's a quick and reliable pilot.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Watson is a silver ranked driver. If the team did not have Scotty Mc they were be considered an Am Car

I can see the issue here, you are talking under some general rules. I am discussing Bathurst 12 hour definitions

Last year the Bronze drivers were typically about 4 seconds (plus) of the pro drivers. That means a lap every hour, will require multiple timely safety cars to have any chance of staying on the lead lap.

As I said it’s nothing to do his ranking. He’s young hence his silver ranking. Don’t doubt his speed though.

Remember Thomas Laurent was a silver in 2017 and look how fast he turned out to be.

And this car is going for pro-am honours.

It has two fast professionally employed drivers, and two very decent paced Amateur drivers that take their Racing very seriously.

I’m struggling to see why you think this is a weak car?

I’m sure if it has a clean run it can comfortably contend for a pro-am win, and with heavy attrition it could do better. With a clean run that is, this is the Bathurst 12hr after all.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

As I said it’s nothing to do his ranking. He’s young hence his silver ranking. Don’t doubt his speed though.

Remember Thomas Laurent was a silver in 2017 and look how fast he turned out to be.

And this car is going for pro-am honours.

It has two fast professionally employed drivers, and two very decent paced Amateur drivers that take their Racing very seriously.

I’m struggling to see why you think this is a weak car?

I’m sure if it has a clean run it can comfortably contend for a pro-am win, and with heavy attrition it could do better. With a clean run that is, this is the Bathurst 12hr after all.

Because it only has one pro driver, competing against teams that have 3, It has a bronze level driver competing against teams that dont have below Gold.

Im sure it can compete against the other Pro-am, However i dont expect it to be the favourite in that class

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Because it only has one pro driver, competing against teams that have 3, It has a bronze level driver competing against teams that dont have below Gold.

Im sure it can compete against the other Pro-am, However i dont expect it to be the favourite in that class

It’s unfair to compare it against it against a full pro lineup? That’s not the point of this car clearly...

The rest is just your opinion

[rich07]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Because it only has one pro driver, competing against teams that have 3, It has a bronze level driver competing against teams that dont have below Gold.

Im sure it can compete against the other Pro-am, However i dont expect it to be the favourite in that class

Wrong.

It has two pro drivers. Both Watson and McLaughlin are widely known as paid professional racing drivers regardless of how they are classified as gold silver bronze etc.

You can be silver and a paid pro driver also for what it’s worth.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by peckstar

cant see it, being rub by mcelrea racing

The 2nd car is almost an Am car with only 1 pro driver

Best we can hope for is some Triple 8 help

As Rich said earlier - the 2016 and 2017 efforts were run in name by Tekno but were full of McLaren GT equipment and personnel. I wouldn't read into the name so blindly Peckstar.

With Come Ledogar & Andrew Watson - this suggests McLaren GT is involved. Will be interesting to see the extent.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by rich07

Wrong.

It has two pro drivers. Both Watson and McLaughlin are widely known as paid professional racing drivers regardless of how they are classified as gold silver bronze etc.

You can be silver and a paid pro driver also for what it’s worth.

you may define pro however you want. its irrelevant to the discussion

Under the rules of the 12 hour Watson is not considered a pro, Scott is the only seeded driver due to being the only Gold or platinum driver in the car. If he was not in the car this car would be considered an Am car

whether he is getting paid or not is irrelevant

These rules are not new have been around for many years, learn them

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

It’s unfair to compare it against it against a full pro lineup? That’s not the point of this car clearly...

The rest is just your opinion

I think i compared it against the other pro am cars when i said

"Im sure it can compete against the other Pro-am, However i dont expect it to be the favourite in that class"

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by peckstar

you may define pro however you want. its irrelevant to the discussion

Under the rules of the 12 hour Watson is not considered a pro, Scott is the only seeded driver due to being the only Gold or platinum driver in the car. If he was not in the car this car would be considered an Am car

whether he is getting paid or not is irrelevant

I think its more how the rest of world motorsport defines someones ability rather than the Bathurst 12 Hour definitions peckstar.

Its refreshing to see how much weight and importance you put in the B12HR seeding regulations Pecky - but obviously McLaren GT rate him highly enough to employ him as a Pro. I think thats what probably counts the most

He has both track and car experience. Look forward to seeing him perform over the weekend.

[StueyB83]

Originally Posted by peckstar

you may define pro however you want. its irrelevant to the discussion

Under the rules of the 12 hour Watson is not considered a pro, Scott is the only seeded driver due to being the only Gold or platinum driver in the car. If he was not in the car this car would be considered an Am car

whether he is getting paid or not is irrelevant

These rules are not new have been around for many years, learn them

Hardly a precedent being set here by the YNA car.

In spite of having driver line ups built to the letter of the regulations, a few cars in the B12hr last year were re-seeded by the race organiser, based on the experience of some drivers.

One such car was the Ash Samardi R8 of Samardi (Bronze), Matt Halliday (Gold) and Gaunt (Silver) - Moved from Am to Pro-Am.

Furthermore, a Pro-AM car was bumped to Pro - the Walkenhorst M6 had Jorg Muller (Platinum) paired with two BMW factory juniors Menzel and Collard - both Silvers at the time (and similar to the position of one Andrew Watson).

At the end of the day, the organiser has the final say and will scrutinise at things like factory listed drivers - regardless of the categorisation the FIA provides.

[one five five]

the McLaughlin McLaren will qualify in the Top 10 and run at the front all day, just like the Lowndes car (presuming the BoP allows the McLarens to be competitive)

Dismissing the car as "just a Pro-Am" entry shows a complete lack of interest & research in GT3 racing outside of the Bathurst 12hr. Just because a car has more "Pro's" in it does not mean in any way, shape or form it will be quicker than a car with "Ams" in it.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

I think its more how the rest of world motorsport defines someones ability rather than the Bathurst 12 Hour definitions peckstar.

Its refreshing to see how much weight and importance you put in the B12HR seeding regulations Pecky - but obviously McLaren GT rate him highly enough to employ him as a Pro. I think thats what probably counts the most

He has both track and car experience. Look forward to seeing him perform over the weekend.

what you and the rest of world think pro means is irrelevant. Pro, Pro-am and Am are classes of the 12 hour (i know you are a fan of class racing so expect you are on board with this) The terms are defined by the rules

How good a driver is is defined under the FIA classifications. Watson is rated as silver and is therefore not a seeded pro in the 12 hour

The rules then determine what class the car races in. This McLaren is considered pro am because it has one seeded driver in it (Scott). If Scott was not in the car it would be considered an Am car. They are the rules (any predefined idea of what the terms mean is irrelevant.

The Am class has changed from last year where a seeded driver was allowed, Seeded drivers are no longer allowed in the Am Class

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

the McLaughlin McLaren will qualify in the Top 10 and run at the front all day, just like the Lowndes car (presuming the BoP allows the McLarens to be competitive)

Dismissing the car as "just a Pro-Am" entry shows a complete lack of interest & research in GT3 racing outside of the Bathurst 12hr. Just because a car has more "Pro's" in it does not mean in any way, shape or form it will be quicker than a car with "Ams" in it.

No doubt (allowing for BOP) that the McLaughlin McLaren will qualify in the top ten. an Am car was second last year. I expect Scott will qualify it and he knows how to get a car around bathurst quick.

Its highly doubtful it will run at the front all day though, expect at least one lap down more likely 2 (depending on SC's). that would be a top ten though

and yes more pros (seeded drivers) means faster, thats exactly what it means, thats why we have a categorisation system

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by peckstar

and yes more pros (seeded drivers) means faster, thats exactly what it means, thats why we have a categorisation system

This is what people have been trying to explain: it doesn't. Young drivers who are rated as Silver have been the ultimate way of cheating the driver rating system over the last few years; get someone who is extremely quick but doesn't yet have enough experience in the eyes of the organizers, and he'll be rated as Silver even though he turns out to be as quick as the "official" Pro drivers. This only works for one year with that driver though: see the cases of a ton of drivers in the WEC who got into LMP2 ranked as Silver, put in stunning performances over a season, they all got uprated to Gold by the end of those particular seasons.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

This is what people have been trying to explain: it doesn't. Young drivers who are rated as Silver have been the ultimate way of cheating the driver rating system over the last few years; get someone who is extremely quick but doesn't yet have enough experience in the eyes of the organizers, and he'll be rated as Silver even though he turns out to be as quick as the "official" Pro drivers. This only works for one year with that driver though: see the cases of a ton of drivers in the WEC who got into LMP2 ranked as Silver, put in stunning performances over a season, they all got uprated to Gold by the end of those particular seasons.

i get that, no issues. But its not a hard and fast rule thats its going to work, got to do well championships to be come Gold.

and then we have bronze drivers as well

[Bcarr6]

I think you have a different idea on this topic to everyone else here Peckstar.

You can slam Watson all you want, but he’s only silver because he is young.

And the definition of a PRO is a PROfessionally employee driver. I’m pretty sure having a contract with a manufacturer puts Watson into that window.

And again, have a little watch of some GT Open races from 2017, you’ll find Alex West is a very proficient Am.

Seeing as this car is fighting for Pro-Am honours, I’m not sure what more you expect from a pro-am lineup than 2 fast professional drivers, and 2 well experienced amateur drivers.

That’s surely the definition of a good pro-am lineup


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

I think you have a different idea on this topic to everyone else here Peckstar.

You can slam Watson all you want, but he’s only silver because he is young.

And the definition of a PRO is a PROfessionally employee driver. I’m pretty sure having a contract with a manufacturer puts Watson into that window.

And again, have a little watch of some GT Open races from 2017, you’ll find Alex West is a very proficient Am.

Seeing as this car is fighting for Pro-Am honours, I’m not sure what more you expect from a pro-am lineup than 2 fast professional drivers, and 2 well experienced amateur drivers.

That’s surely the definition of a good pro-am lineup

I havent slammed watson at all

and your definition of pro does not meet the 12 hour rule, so its irrelevant. Its a rule definition, not a dictionary definition. Watson is considered an AM under the rules (i really dont understand why people are trying to argue about that, its the rule of the event)

And im sure it is a good pro-am line up, however even by your definition of pro and am, only one Am is needed, not 2,
Thus its not going to be as good as others, some of who will have two gold/platinum drivers and only one silver

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I havent slammed watson at all

and your definition of pro does not meet the 12 hour rule, so its irrelevant. Its a rule definition, not a dictionary definition. Watson is considered an AM under the rules (i really dont understand why people are trying to argue about that, its the rule of the event)

And im sure it is a good pro-am line up, however even by your definition of pro and am, only one Am is needed, not 2,
Thus its not going to be as good as others, some of who will have two gold/platinum drivers and only one silver

whatever, just don't change your story if you see the car do well during the race...

[ATLFalconsFAN]

Sorry if this has been asked 1,000,001 times already. But what time does the race start in the Eastern US time zone. Website says one thing, but then the countdown on the website seems to contradict that. It's making my head hurt, so any help is appreciated.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by ATLFalconsFAN

Sorry if this has been asked 1,000,001 times already. But what time does the race start in the Eastern US time zone. Website says one thing, but then the countdown on the website seems to contradict that. It's making my head hurt, so any help is appreciated.

I see what you're saying. Countdown clock is 28 days and jyst under 2 hours from now so that would be before 3 pm but the start time of 545am would be 145pm for us, unless there's something to do with the International Date Line. Thanks now my head hurts!

[E.B]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

I see what you're saying. Countdown clock is 28 days and jyst under 2 hours from now so that would be before 3 pm but the start time of 545am would be 145pm for us, unless there's something to do with the International Date Line. Thanks now my head hurts!

It could be something simple such as the countdown clock was started before we in Eastern Australia moved to Summer time (clocks forward 1 hour) and was never re-calibrated? Just a thought.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by E.B

It could be something simple such as the countdown clock was started before we in Eastern Australia moved to Summer time (clocks forward 1 hour) and was never re-calibrated? Just a thought.

That's probably it. Pretty sure we are a 145pm EST green flag. That was the start time last year and if 545am was start time last year, that's it for us. So rest of the schedule would be 16 hours ahead of Eastern Standard, if my math is correct.

[peckstar]

Countdown clock is definately about an hour out, It is suggesting the race starts at 6.55 am, Wheer as race start on the schredule is 5.45