New FIA Formula Two series for 2009!!

[strider]

You must be right. As you can tell I know next to nothing about F3. Must remember to ask Nick Tandy if he and his brother have £550k to run the Mygale. Rather doubt it.

Anyway this thread is about F2. Have to say that most of my friends, some of whom do something about the junior formulas, think that last week's test raised more questions than it answered them. Only lapping in the 59s bracket in a car with supposedly that much power on a circuit with a nice long straight? Brundle third fastest? No, the jury is still out on the credibility of this one.

[runshaw]

Originally Posted by strider

Only lapping in the 59s bracket in a car with supposedly that much power on a circuit with a nice long straight? Brundle third fastest? No, the jury is still out on the credibility of this one.

What is wrong with 59 secs, on the first official test? Snetterton equalises cars to an extent, e.g. Arden International F3000 with top class driver in the 58s, very quick F3 drivers in the 61.0s times...? Not many corners, if there was, F2 is obviously going to be much quicker. What is wrong with Brundle? Fast improving driver maybe??

[strider]

Originally Posted by runshaw

What is wrong with 59 secs, on the first official test? Snetterton equalises cars to an extent, e.g. Arden International F3000 with top class driver in the 58s, very quick F3 drivers in the 61.0s times...? Not many corners, if there was, F2 is obviously going to be much quicker. What is wrong with Brundle? Fast improving driver maybe??

I'd have thought the opposite actually. More corners would close the gap compared with, say, an F3 car. The F2 cars must be much quicker down the Revett straight. I'm quite happy to wait and see where Brundle is concerned; he may suddenly have become a vastly improved driver, but that's what it would have to be.

[Mak]

Originally Posted by strider

You must be right. As you can tell I know next to nothing about F3. Must remember to ask Nick Tandy if he and his brother have £550k to run the Mygale. Rather doubt it.

Anyway this thread is about F2. Have to say that most of my friends, some of whom do something about the junior formulas, think that last week's test raised more questions than it answered them. Only lapping in the 59s bracket in a car with supposedly that much power on a circuit with a nice long straight? Brundle third fastest? No, the jury is still out on the credibility of this one.

I have the utmost repect for what the Tandy's are doing and how they are aquitting themselves. It gives some hope to what has become primarily an arena for the mega rich. The main reason for the Tandy's path is just this fact that to run with a championship winning team costs so much. I would like nothing more than for them to be very successful this year and show the way for others. Their determination and faith in what they are doing is as refreshing as it is rare in motorsport these days.

[Mak]

F3 cars around Snetterton have done thousands of development miles, I think the test was their first proper F2 test there(or anywhere for that matter), and I also heard that they were very conservative on setup for this test. (high ride heights etc..) Not that the ultimate lap time really has any significants. More to the point is the fact that 22 cars were covered by 1.3 seconds. To me that says that the racingis going to be very exciting. Oh yes and they still have push to pass. Maybe they should have done what A1GP did to achieve fast lap times last year and engage the push to pass for the whole lap for a cheap PR stunt..

[strider]

Originally Posted by Mak

I have the utmost respect for what the Tandys are doing and how they are acquitting themselves. It gives some hope to what has become primarily an arena for the mega rich. The main reason for the Tandys path is just this fact that to run with a championship winning team costs so much. I would like nothing more than for them to be very successful this year and show the way for others. Their determination and faith in what they are doing is as refreshing as it is rare in motorsport these days.

We can certainly agree about the Tandys. They have my 100% support and it was good to see in a recent Autosport article that they have also earned the respect of the big teams.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Mak

F3 cars around Snetterton have done thousands of development miles, I think the test was their first proper F2 test there(or anywhere for that matter), and I also heard that they were very conservative on setup for this test. (high ride heights etc..) Not that the ultimate lap time really has any significants. More to the point is the fact that 22 cars were covered by 1.3 seconds. To me that says that the racing is going to be very exciting. Oh yes and they still have push to pass. Maybe they should have done what A1GP did to achieve fast lap times last year and engage the push to pass for the whole lap for a cheap PR stunt..

It was the first group test, yes, but Steven Kane (ex-British F3 race winner ) has done a fair amount testing in the prototype around Snetterton, so there was no reason why he shouldn't have been able to establish a good, basic set-up.

[Mak]

Originally Posted by strider

It was the first group test, yes, but Steven Kane (ex-British F3 race winner ) has done a fair amount testing in the prototype around Snetterton, so there was no reason why he shouldn't have been able to establish a good, basic set-up.

As long as you call a fair amount of testing 3 days at Snett, with a total of 5 days car testing at proper circuits(not bedford) we'll have to agree.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Mak

As long as you call a fair amount of testing 3 days at Snett, with a total of 5 days car testing at proper circuits(not bedford) we'll have to agree.

I think it was enough for the purpose, with an experienced driver.

Don't get me wrong, I'm actually very much in favour of some aspects of F2. I just hope that the whole thing isn't stage-managed in the way that FPA was in its early days.

That's why I'm saying the jury's still out. I want to see some more tests and maybe some racing and see if the the formula allows the cream to come to the top. We all know which drivers should do well. If there's a surprise addition to those names, fair enough.

[sauber11]

I want to give you some Michail Aleshin notice from the testing( excluzive to our russian site) about car.
1) this turbo-engine feels like n\a, but sounds of course like a turbo. To start moving you have to make at least 4000 rpm, when turbine starts to work.
2) acceleration something between WSR and GP2, mainly because with almost same power F2 car weights 80kg less.
3)gearbox works better than in WSR and Gp2, but worse than in A1( yes, i am also shocked, but i remember bruno senna on youtube testing nissan gt-r and saying that its transmission is better that the one in Gp2)
4) The worse thing in f2 car, that made angry all drivers is that you cant feel clutch when starting to move, its too soft.
5)"too soft" -thats the first thing he thought about f2 car, its use touring car set-up , maybe because of novices from formula-palmer-audi drivers.
6)the most interesting thing is the possibility from the cockpit to directly change the angle of attack of front wing, and also the level of the hardness of front shock absorbers. Sadly, it was off on the first tests.

[Alex K]

Great stuff sauber11, did he give any predictions?

[Mak]

Originally Posted by sauber11

I want to give you some Michail Aleshin notice from the testing( excluzive to our russian site) about car.
1) this turbo-engine feels like n\a, but sounds of course like a turbo. To start moving you have to make at least 4000 rpm, when turbine starts to work.
2) acceleration something between WSR and GP2, mainly because with almost same power F2 car weights 80kg less.
3)gearbox works better than in WSR and Gp2, but worse than in A1( yes, i am also shocked, but i remember bruno senna on youtube testing nissan gt-r and saying that its transmission is better that the one in Gp2)
4) The worse thing in f2 car, that made angry all drivers is that you cant feel clutch when starting to move, its too soft.
5)"too soft" -thats the first thing he thought about f2 car, its use touring car set-up , maybe because of novices from formula-palmer-audi drivers.
6)the most interesting thing is the possibility from the cockpit to directly change the angle of attack of front wing, and also the level of the hardness of front shock absorbers. Sadly, it was off on the first tests.

Sadly its rubbish! It has an adjustable front anti roll bar, which has nothing to do with Adjustment of damper. Not sure if something was lost in translation or someone does not know what they are talking about. Maybe someone can explain to me how you set up a singleseater like a touring car???

[sauber11]

Calm down, Mak, of course maybe i was wrong somewhere in translation
Here is original article http://www.f1news.ru/news/f1-49970.html if you need

This time i am using translator

And actually, organizers placed the almost touring car tuning of suspension, apparently

But here I was strummed in abundance with the shock absorbers. Their hardness it is possible to change the unlimited number of times on the circle and in me already, of course, appeared some considerations in regard to this

Great stuff sauber11, did he give any predictions?

Tnx. Not yet, he just told earlier that he tried to put his best lap when Jousse was off and the session was stopped. So he lost that best tyre condition and wasnt trying again to put his best lap, worked on different program. So he was very pleasant when found himself on 9 place.

[Mak]

Originally Posted by sauber11

Calm down, Mak, of course maybe i was wrong somewhere in translation
Here is original article http://www.f1news.ru/news/f1-49970.html if you need

This time i am using translator

And actually, organizers placed the almost touring car tuning of suspension, apparently

But here I was strummed in abundance with the shock absorbers. Their hardness it is possible to change the unlimited number of times on the circle and in me already, of course, appeared some considerations in regard to this


Tnx. Not yet, he just told earlier that he tried to put his best lap when Jousse was off and the session was stopped. So he lost that best tyre condition and wasnt trying again to put his best lap, worked on different program. So he was very pleasant when found himself on 9 place.

Standard 4 way adjustable Ohlins. TTX40 I think.

[jondownunder]

Just spotted that Hegewald and Eng got some experience of Brno last month, driving an old WSR Dallara-Renault run by Top Speed: http://www.top-speed.cc/Test-day-at-...2009.65.0.html

[Last2LiftOff]

Testing tomorrow (Monday) at Silverstone?

Edit: Ah...Silverstone.

[strider]

The long-awaited test has been run, although the day was marred by changeable weather conditions, but at least the drivers managed to complete some dry weather running. There's a report here. Henry Surtees was fastest, but it all sounds to have been a bit inconclusive.

Times:

Pos  Driver               Time      Gap
 1. Henry Surtees        1:38.920  +
 2. Mikhail Aleshin      1:40.022  + 1.102
 3. Julien Jousse        1:40.481  + 1.561
 4. Sebastian Hohenthal  1:40.637  + 1.717
 5. Robert Wickens       1:40.720  + 1.800
 6. Jolyon Palmer        1:40.800  + 1.880
 7. Andy Soucek          1:40.808  + 1.888
 8. Jack Clarke          1:40.861  + 1.941
 9. Philipp Eng          1:41.451  + 2.531
10. Carolos Iaconelli    1:41.873  + 2.953
11. Jason Moore          1:41.876  + 2.956
12. Tobias Hegewald      1:41.982  + 3.062
13. Milos Pavlovic       1:42.114  + 3.194
14. Alex Brundle         1:42.164  + 3.244
15. Edoardo Piscopo      1:42.428  + 3.508
16. Natacha Gachnang     1:42.535  + 3.615
17. Mirko Bortolotti     1:42.634  + 3.714
18. Armaan Ebrahim       1:43.607  + 4.687
19. German Sanchez       1:44.284  + 5.364
20. Henri Karjalainen    1:44.495  + 5.575
21. Tom Gladdis          1:45.175  + 6.255
22. Nicola De Marco      1:45.587  + 6.667
23. Jens Hoing           1:47.724  + 8.804
24. Pietro Gandolfi      1:48.465  + 9.545

[sauber11]

http://www.f1news.ru/news/f1-50063.html new part from Aleshin.
Funny thing he said about John Surtees. Sorry for this rude translation.

And as usually it did not manage without the red flag: they hung it out exactly after my first lap on new rubber, which as a result became the best. But everyone were astonished by Henry Surtees: he passed lap for second (!) faster than anyone! But how this did come out, will ask you, indeed thus far leaders stably “did convey” to him a second on the lap? Answer is simple: weather. It was evidently that soon it will begin rain. I already used a new set of tires; therefore I stood in the boxings and suddenly saw the staggering picture: hardly wind calmed down, as literally in the same second came running itself John Surtees and he insisted so that to his son of Henry, whom he helps, immediately would be placed new tires! So Henry run without the wind and with the use of a boost system .
Well what here it is possible to say? I think, helped the experience, obtained by sir John in the distant fiftieth and the sixtieth, when it earned his champion titles.
No one could even imagine in those times that the entire divisions, which correspond for the weather summaries, sometimes will appear in the commands of formula 1: all relied on its experience and sensations. So that, I think, in our paddoke no one will be able to predict the weather of more precise than John Surtees!

[kerrmanningjarv]

Kazim Vasiliauskas missing, I wonder if he had technical problems or has dropped out? (Don't want to fear the worst but we have already lost a few drivers).

[Mak]

Originally Posted by sauber11

http://www.f1news.ru/news/f1-50063.html new part from Aleshin.
Funny thing he said about John Surtees. Sorry for this rude translation.

And as usually it did not manage without the red flag: they hung it out exactly after my first lap on new rubber, which as a result became the best. But everyone were astonished by Henry Surtees: he passed lap for second (!) faster than anyone! But how this did come out, will ask you, indeed thus far leaders stably “did convey” to him a second on the lap? Answer is simple: weather. It was evidently that soon it will begin rain. I already used a new set of tires; therefore I stood in the boxings and suddenly saw the staggering picture: hardly wind calmed down, as literally in the same second came running itself John Surtees and he insisted so that to his son of Henry, whom he helps, immediately would be placed new tires! So Henry run without the wind and with the use of a boost system .
Well what here it is possible to say? I think, helped the experience, obtained by sir John in the distant fiftieth and the sixtieth, when it earned his champion titles.
No one could even imagine in those times that the entire divisions, which correspond for the weather summaries, sometimes will appear in the commands of formula 1: all relied on its experience and sensations. So that, I think, in our paddoke no one will be able to predict the weather of more precise than John Surtees!

Have it on good authority that when Surtees did his fastest lap Boost had not been enabled.. All drivers are given fastest lap data as reference and included is cars boost, if Aleshin looks he will see Surtees did not have more boost. Also he only managed 3 fast laps on new tyres and all 3 were more than 7/10's faster, see lap sheets. It was done in the session prior to the rain and boost enabled session which Aleshin refers to. It was timely as most were waiting for the boost enabled session. Only a few laps were run before the rain fell.

[META4]

Hard to believe that this new Formula 2 will the F1 feeder serie.

When you compare the Lap time of Surtees at Silverstone 1.38.920 to the WSR last year Pole Position (Wickens in 1.31.582) it is miles away out of the pace and some of the formula 2 Field was running as fast as a Formula Renault 2000 car (1.44.492 for Bottas in 2008) with 250Hp more...

To reply to KermanningJarvis i read somewhere that Vasiliauskas had an Engine Failure on the morning session.

[Mak]

Don't think fastest time was really represenative of potential, as it had just started to rain prior to Surtees lap, and few took opportunity to run new tyres be4 rain. Also only about 1 hour setup development had been done by the time it rained. But still would be much slower than WS. I don't think overall speed of champioship has anything to do with who goes into F1.(look at F3 lap times and as said before Kimi only raced Formula Renault) Politics will dictate if a driver from the series goes into F1 and a betting man would say F2 has as good a chance as any with FIA, Williams and Palmer involvement. Also drivers like Soucek, Wickens ect.. are no less a driver because they do F2. F2 may prove a good thing even if it is only to make others series look at effective cost control measures. End of the day any top driver in all main series would go OK in F1 given the right car, just as any would fail in the wrong car. F2 is not ideal but if you don't have budget for GP2,WS ,F3 etc.. what would you do, sit on the side?

[META4]

They will never close the gap between WSR and Formula2 cars with Set-up adjustment and with new tyres.

Formula2 achieved to attract (some) decent drivers but they must be a bit dissapointed with the way of work. For instance sharing 1 race Engineer for 3-4 cars must be hard to understand for the drivers who have already experienced F3,WSR or even GP2.


Also money has always been part of the driver selection in racing.

[Mak]

We live in an ever changing world and drivers need to be adaptable to different cars and procedures. Nothing is ever perfect or ideal. Who knows where F1 will end up in 5 years!

Not sure why it would be important to close the gap to World Series.. If it was all about who has the fastest series then there should be a series for Honda F1 cars and everyone looking for 10's of million £ budgets. Actually thats a good idea... anyone want to sign up..lol

[strider]

I'm not trying to make any particular point here, just stating a fact and that is that only Surtees went faster than the pole position times for the two recent BF3 races on the same circuit.

Before someone jumps down my throat, I've already said myself on here that the weather conditions were changeable, which is why it would be wrong to draw a conclusion, but it is a fact.