Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Road Car Forums > Road Car Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 3 Mar 2003, 19:46 (Ref:523735)   #1
paul c
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location:
bedford, UK
Posts: 36
paul c should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Front wheel drive.... Or rear wheel drive?

Apologies if this one is an old chestnut but I'd be interested in people's opinions. Until now I've only ever had rear-wheel drive cars but I've recently bought a Saab 9000. I was told by the salesman to expect it to be more responsive to steering if I was used to rear-wheel drive. It does seem to be, but I'm not at all convinced that's down to it being front-wheel drive. What are your opinions?

It's certainly different and I'm not at all sure how to know when I'm getting near to the limit of handling. The rear wheel drive cars I've had have tended towards predictable oversteer but one or two comments I've picked up have suggested that when you get near the limit with a large front wheel drive car it may not be so clear as to what the handling's going to do. As Bluebottle and Tim know from experience, I'm not one to throw a car around the whole time, but I've got more power on tap than I've had in my previous cars, so any suggestions from experience would be welcome.

The one thing I have noticed is the turning circle is lousy!
paul c is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Mar 2003, 20:39 (Ref:523781)   #2
Bluebottle
Veteran
 
Bluebottle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
United Kingdom
High Wycombe
Posts: 1,525
Bluebottle should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBluebottle should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The only large fwd car I've driven was the Buick Century we rented in Florida last year, a soft squashy ride giving few clues as to what was actually happening! The others have been small hatchbacks with odd handling charecteristics, most recently a Corsa which tried to throw me off the road on every turn! And they all have lousy turning circle (apart from the Buick, just as well in such a barge!)
Bluebottle is offline  
__________________
There are 10 types of people in this world... those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Quote
Old 3 Mar 2003, 20:41 (Ref:523782)   #3
Mal
Veteran
 
Mal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
England
London
Posts: 4,354
Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!
From my experience a front drive car is more predictable that a rear drive. Mainly because all they do is understeer. Hit a corner to fast and it just plough straight on. Theres not a lot u can do other than put it on full lock and slow down. A rear drive car is much more fun especially if its got more power than chassis, and then you can start to steer with the throttle!

Last edited by Mal; 3 Mar 2003 at 20:42.
Mal is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Mar 2003, 21:47 (Ref:523859)   #4
bella
Race Official
Veteran
 
bella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
France
Posts: 16,760
bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!
rear rear rear rear!!

although i'm getting a front wheel drive car, what are the main differences? i drove a fwd peugeot and understeered excessively, is this normal?
bella is offline  
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides
Quote
Old 3 Mar 2003, 23:47 (Ref:523992)   #5
Damon
Veteran
 
Damon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
United Kingdom
Hampshire, England
Posts: 5,577
Damon should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yes, particularly with large engined hatches (all the weight at the front).

Got to be rear wheel drive for fun, but thats not always desireable on the roads. If you get some idiot behind the wheel then they'll be spinning like a top.
Damon is offline  
__________________
Brought to you by Glagnar's Human Rinds: "A-bunch-a-munch-crunch-a-human"
Quote
Old 4 Mar 2003, 00:22 (Ref:524023)   #6
Woolley
Race Official
Veteran
 
Woolley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
England
Wolverhampton, England
Posts: 12,455
Woolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Theres not a lot u can do other than put it on full lock and slow down
Nope, wrong. Providing you've got space, take the lock off and slow down. The wheels will regain the grip faster, and you can brake with them straight, then you can go round the corner.

Give me rear drive always, more fun and far more control.

Will Hoy put it best: With front drive you have to be very precise on the entry and exit of a corner and a hooligan in the middle. Rear drive is the opposite, so you can be a hooligan twice as often for any given stretch of road.
Woolley is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Mar 2003, 07:59 (Ref:524195)   #7
Mal
Veteran
 
Mal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
England
London
Posts: 4,354
Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Nope, wrong. Providing you've got space, take the lock off and slow down. The wheels will regain the grip faster, and you can brake with them straight, then you can go round the corner.
Fine, but in reality on the road where do you have the space? The point is that FWD is not as much fun as RWD
Mal is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Mar 2003, 08:07 (Ref:524198)   #8
moffman
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
sydney
Posts: 747
moffman should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
How can anyone think a FWD car is good? Gotta steer with the rear!
moffman is offline  
__________________
Lend me your brain I am building an idiot.
Quote
Old 4 Mar 2003, 08:12 (Ref:524200)   #9
Alpina
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location:
Fife Scotland
Posts: 561
Alpina should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Fun is relative! Although the driving wheels affects the character of the car there is more to it than that. I have owned mostly rear wheel drive cars for road and competition and I reckon I can drive a RWD pretty well but dare anyone to tell me that a mini or Peugeot 205 is not fun to drive. I have powerful FWD rally car now and I am struggling to drive it. On my first rally i had a few spins and my "friends" told me that it was because I was lifting off mid corner. So next run I nailed the throttle through the corners. the result.. I had 360 at 90mph. The moral.. never listen to your friends.
Alpina is offline  
__________________
Cowspeed
Quote
Old 4 Mar 2003, 08:44 (Ref:524216)   #10
racer69
Veteran
 
racer69's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Australia
Sydney, Australia
Posts: 10,043
racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
You can't do circle work with a FWD car......unless you put it in reverse

I've mostly driven FWD cars, not by choice, i've never had a car of my own and most people i know have FWD cars. I've done quite a few laps around Bathurst in my dad's RWD Holden Commodore VT SS though, and give me that any day. I've had a steer of some other RWD cars, and just generally preferred them to FWD cars.
racer69 is offline  
__________________
"The Great Race"
22 November 1960 - 21 July 1999
Quote
Old 4 Mar 2003, 15:36 (Ref:524557)   #11
Tristan
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location:
In a secret location, unknown even to me
Posts: 2,946
Tristan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Rear. Or a clever, light 4WD.
Tristan is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Mar 2003, 16:38 (Ref:524593)   #12
paul c
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location:
bedford, UK
Posts: 36
paul c should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Anyone tried the trick of left foot braking on a fwd if it starts to slide on a bend? I've never done this but I'm told that gentle left foot braking while accelerating moderately with the wheel turned in the direction you're trying to go in will pull the car back into shape by slowing the car on its rear brakes to give traction back to the driving wheels. This is supposed to be a good technique when driving on icy roads but I've not had the car long enough (or found a big enough empty car park in the ice) to give it a go.
paul c is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Mar 2003, 17:10 (Ref:524610)   #13
KC
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
United States
Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posts: 2,762
KC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I've had some nice four wheel drifts in my Focus. In middle bend the car will understeer if the throttle is applied hard, but if it is pushed in smoothly it just tracks right around the corner. Its kind of a wierd sensation. The car is fairly tall and feels like it is leaning way over, but it never lifts a tire off (ala VW Golf) and keeps up its grip even with my factory Firestones (grip/wear rating 300 = hockey pucks) on it.

When our weather gets bad my FWD just motors on. I have had a Dodge Dakota and Ford Ranger pickup and they were much more challenging to drive in the wet and snow than my Focus. My Focus handles better than my 1990 CRX Si by a huge margin, even when I had sticky Dunlops on it.

In the last two weeks I have had to drive in the snow and ice for 12 of those days. I have found that if the car loses front traction to let it coast and straighten the wheel up. The tires start rolling instead of sliding and control comes back. The obviously stupid things should be avoided at all costs. Hitting the brakes while on a bridge or changing lanes on a bridge are definitely inviting disaster. I also stop using 1st gear when it gets slick. The car pulls away from 2nd gear no problem and it reduces the torque at the wheel.
KC is offline  
__________________
Never forget #99
Quote
Old 4 Mar 2003, 17:12 (Ref:524612)   #14
gfm
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 897
gfm should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgfm should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Don't do it Paul C. Left foot braking is a total red-herring, unless the car's designed for it and you're on the loose - see comments in racer forum 'left foot braking'. IMHO this is just bar room talk.
gfm is offline  
__________________
John M
Quote
Old 4 Mar 2003, 17:45 (Ref:524635)   #15
garcon
Veteran
 
garcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Antarctica
Wilmslow, Cheshire
Posts: 8,885
garcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famegarcon will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
I'm with gfm on that. Leave left foot braking to the pros.

If we're honest here, we'd accept that for most of us (obviously keen but fairly average in terms of driving skill) a FWD is the better bet 'cos it's more predictable below the extremes of its limits and therefore somewhat safer (and probably just as exciting) in our hands.

We all know that a RWD (with traction control switched off!) is more adjustable at/over the limit and ultimately much more fun cos we've seen it on telly, but we also know it needs a more advanced level of skill to achieve that without a 50/50 chance of meeting the scenery backwards.

Most road going 4WD cars are intentionally set up to behave initially like an FWD - call it a level of engineered in safety margin. And again, what we really know is that for most of us the handling limits of an Impreza or Evo are waaaaaay beyond our own and we'll probably never reach that mythical point you read about in the mags where "initial understeer can be easily provoked into a rewarding four wheel drift..."
garcon is offline  
__________________
"Never pick a fight with an ugly person, they've got nothing to lose."
Quote
Old 4 Mar 2003, 18:21 (Ref:524674)   #16
norman-normal
Veteran
 
norman-normal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
Posts: 803
norman-normal should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I got the first Minnie Cooper in Utah and started racing it 2 wks after delivery. On a dry surface they will not corner with a well driven RWD. But in rain or on snow they are a blast.
CAUTION: allow 30% greater distance for braking on slick surfaces.
norman-normal is offline  
__________________
"A gentelman is guilty of every crime that does not require courage" Oscar Wilde.
Quote
Old 4 Mar 2003, 22:44 (Ref:524977)   #17
Woolley
Race Official
Veteran
 
Woolley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
England
Wolverhampton, England
Posts: 12,455
Woolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Fine, but in reality on the road where do you have the space?
Good point. What I meant to say was 'if you have enough space left... before you hit something, that's the right way to get the grip back. If you haven't, do what you like with the wheels & brakes if it means you feel part of a team. Nothing's going to help you by then!
Woolley is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Mar 2003, 00:16 (Ref:525102)   #18
mac
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 5,702
mac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridmac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridmac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Rear wheel drive is great, and I prefer it to FWD. But it is folly to dismiss front wheel drive as useless, and unenjoyable, as there are some truly great front wheel drive cars around.

Companies like Peugeot, Renault, Alfa, BMW (MINI), Honda and even Volvo, produce some wonderful FWD chassis.
mac is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Mar 2003, 00:58 (Ref:525138)   #19
dretceterini
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location:
Los Angeles, Calif suburb
Posts: 521
dretceterini should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I raced FWD Minis and RWD Alfas. I don't think there is much difference between a FWD and RWD small displacement car when racing; they just take a different technique. When you get to big displacement cars, I prefer RWD.
dretceterini is offline  
__________________
I specialize in the history of small displacement sports racers from France and Italy, circa 1930-1960.
Quote
Old 5 Mar 2003, 05:31 (Ref:525264)   #20
coln72
Racer
 
coln72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location:
Maryborough, VIC, Australia
Posts: 338
coln72 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
At the local car club, it is generally considered that a FWD will be around 4-5 sec quicker than a RWD. A Camira has actually placed outright before.
coln72 is offline  
__________________
Think drifting is tough. Try it on gravel, in the dark, amonst trees...............
Quote
Old 5 Mar 2003, 08:01 (Ref:525332)   #21
neilwaynesmith
Veteran
 
neilwaynesmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
England
Tamworth, England
Posts: 625
neilwaynesmith is a back marker
Come that particularly nasty corner, it all depends on whether you want to make a hole in the hedge going forwards, or backwards....
neilwaynesmith is offline  
__________________
Like all who stand before the inquisitor, your judge shall be... yourself!
Oh smeg.....
Oh smeg indeed, matey!
Quote
Old 5 Mar 2003, 09:57 (Ref:525420)   #22
AussieV8
Veteran
 
AussieV8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Australia
Orange, NSW Australia
Posts: 654
AussieV8 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

Quote:
Originally posted by coln72
At the local car club, it is generally considered that a FWD will be around 4-5 sec quicker than a RWD. A Camira has actually placed outright before.
A Camira was it gettin towed.

My wife and I last three cars have been FWD and one of them was a 6.
In the UK it was known as a 1994 Mazda Xedos 6 here it was a Eunos 500 V6 great car but we traded to a 1999 323 Astina 1.8 she finds them easier to drive. I drive a 1996 4x4 Mazda ute so going from one to another is no comparison. Having done some club racing RWD is much easier to control when on the limits.
Looking forward to trading the 323 and the ute on a Mazda RX8 in August as we have no kids.
Yes you guessed it we like (love) MAZDA'S (zoom zoom)
AussieV8 is offline  
__________________
Come on Mazda lets see factory support again...
Dave...
Quote
Old 5 Mar 2003, 10:08 (Ref:525430)   #23
alfasud
Veteran
 
alfasud's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
New Zealand
Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 972
alfasud should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It all depends, who's paying for it, is it purely a road car, or do I get to race in in the weekend? Does it have to fit in my rather small garage?

My feelings are similar to dretceterini, with small cars that are well designed and setup, both FWD and RWD can be quick. I've often seen FWD Alfasud outcorner more expensive RWD Alfa GTV.

With a more powerfull car, the weight transfer under acceleration requires RWD or 4WD to put the power to the road/track.

Last edited by alfasud; 5 Mar 2003 at 10:11.
alfasud is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Mar 2003, 10:26 (Ref:525442)   #24
AussieV8
Veteran
 
AussieV8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Australia
Orange, NSW Australia
Posts: 654
AussieV8 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
That so true alfasud. I got to drive a Subaru Leone Rs Turbo 4x4 a few years ago and was albe to give it some. The car had been worked so it sat quite neutral when corning fast but coming out was something especially with the turbo on song. Most of all the small hatches/sedans are FWD so there is not much to pick from unless to go upto a meduim to large car to get RWD.
AussieV8 is offline  
__________________
Come on Mazda lets see factory support again...
Dave...
Quote
Old 5 Mar 2003, 18:32 (Ref:525895)   #25
Woolley
Race Official
Veteran
 
Woolley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
England
Wolverhampton, England
Posts: 12,455
Woolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
It's all dependent on the nut holding the steering wheel, anyway.
Woolley is offline  
__________________
Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other.
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First ever front-wheel drive GT?? Les Sportscar & GT Racing 28 8 Jan 2008 22:45
Front Wheel Drive Edmonton Road Car Forum 7 20 Jan 2004 11:42
Front Wheel Drive Set-Up Point-5 Racing Technology 14 29 Jul 2003 06:06
Is Rear Wheel Drive on the way out? racer69 Road Car Forum 53 30 May 2003 20:04
front or rear wheel drive? mindprobe Motorsport History 7 13 Sep 2001 21:19


All times are GMT. The time now is 20:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.