[WEC] Is the future Doom and Gloom?

[CTD]

The tittle pretty much says it .

Thread created to take up the debate of a gloomy future for the WEC (and Le Mans), and keep it out of other threads.

Warning:
This thread contains mostly speculations and rumors.


(If any mod should find it unsuitable please delete it)

[TheMightyM]

Kind of short on time at the moment to give this the long answer it deserves, but for now I’ll offer a baseball analogy — this past WEC season qualifies as strike one — and three strikes and you’re out.

[Breitling24]

CTD, so in this "debate," (since you posted the thread) what is your opening argument? Gloom and doom? Why? Please explain so comments of aye or nay may be sent.

@MightyM: for a long answer, stand by, Maelochs should be composing one soon.

[TF110]

No. I think we will have to wait a few years before coming to a conclusion of whether this wec fails.

[Breitling24]

Originally Posted by TF110

No. I think we will have to wait a few years before coming to a conclusion of whether this wec fails.

Yes, just like the North American merger.

[Starfish Primer]

What championship is healthy nowadays? I cannot find any without teams leaving and the other begging money from paydrivers.

[TheMightyM]

To get the discussion going: Is the WEC a bridge too far?

I’d say quite possibly -- we’ll probably know whether the WEC succeeds after two more years, and that the first year certain qualifies as a disappointment, a strike (in the baseball sense) if you will. The series was forced to institute additional cost-saving measures despite which we are apparently seeing a reduction in car count and certainly in field quality in 2013. That’s not a good beginning.

[Scooter185]

I think the series just needs to get through 2013 and that with the larger rules changes coming online in 14/15 we will see more interest in the series. There's a lot of potential in the near future with the open engine regs in p1, whatever p2 turns into -possibly including influence from the American series which could only benefit both- and the possible GT3/GTE merger.

I think p1 is in dire need of new works or semi-works backed teams with a possible spending cap. In a perfect world Red Bull would jump into LMP1 as they have the $ to compete with Audi.

[Breitling24]

It will be interesting to see if there is any cross-pollination, or acceptance by the WEC of whatever The GA/ALMS combo come up with over the next couple of years. Could be that if WEC fails, as some predict, would the manufacturers put more into North American racing, through "prototype" engine development, or assignment of drivers for a complete season, to cars running their power plants.

[pach233]

I've thought a lot about this lately regarding racing as a whole generally and sports car racing. IMO a lot of what made racing what it was has slowly eroded away. This, combined with economic factors, loss of relevance (imo) to the general auto industry and mis-management of many major series has led to the decline we're seeing all of over the place.

This spec type racing aimed at lowering cost and marketing to the lowest common denominator isn't helping matters. NASCAR, Indycar, V8 Supercars, DTM, NGTC Touring Cars, Daytona Prototypes, Super GT have all gradually gone more and more spec. While GT racing has gone more towards performance balancing. This type of racing just doesn't capture the imagination of fans.

Something needs to significantly change in the mindset and promotion of series or racing will become more irrelevant and we will continue to see fields dwindle in quality and quantity. It needs to become a viable professional sport at the top where money is made rather than written off as a marketing expense.

I'm sorry for the not so well put together thoughts. If things don't change, racing as a whole is doomed in the future. In the mean time I'll enjoy all the racing I can.

[The Badger]

Never a gloomy future for Le Mans .

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by CTD

Warning:
This thread contains mostly speculations and rumors.

OK, can someone point me to a thread that is not mostly speculations and rumors?????

I am sorry, I am not trying to be a jerk (it comes naturally), but that line above just made me laugh.

[Maelochs]

Just a preface while I work on my novel …

Pach233 says, “It needs to become a viable professional sport at the top where money is made rather than written off as a marketing expense.”

This is key, I think. Nobody worries about what it will cost to buy or operate a football team (and football has no relevance to anything in daily life.) Football teams do not serve to promote other entities. Football teams are part of a sports/entertainment industry which spends ridiculous amounts of money (one year’s contract for a football player could funs some whole series) and turn a profit as sports entertainment.

If racing series cannot serve as sports/entertainment (which I’d say NASCAR and F1 do,) then those series will eventually fold. Racing is no longer generating enough positive publicity compared to what a more conventional ad campaign could do. The only reason most series exist, I think, is because some people in positions of power (in leagues, in car companies, in sanctioning bodies) love racing.

Look at Toyota, which could almost certainly win Le Mans in 2013 with s three-car effort, but refuses. The bean-counters outweigh the passionate racers there.

I don’t know how long Audi and Porsche will be willing to spend the same corporate budget to race each other. I don’t know who might step up to take them on. What happens to WEC with no factories?

The “Relevance” idea is tenuous at best. Racing can produce and test some new tech, but plenty of new tech is produced, developed, and refined outside of racing. Also, “relevance” doesn’t mean a thing to privateers.

Can spec cars properly marketed provide the kind of arena-filling entertainment that a series really needs to turn a profit? Will people still get excited enough about Ford/Holden, Ford/Chevy, Mercedes/Audi that those expensive series can survive? Probably, possibly.

Can Riley-BMW and Dallara-Honda? I don’t think so.

Will racing fans (as opposed to sports/entertainment fans) support those series? Doubt it.

[TF110]

You don't need a huge # of cars to put on a race, or to even win a race. What you need is quality entries and a stable atmosphere. Hopefully people are drawn by LeMans enough to partake in the WEC. With ALMS going bye bye for prototypes it seems, perhaps ELMS and AsLMS will start to gain popularity. If they open up to makers of different types of vehicles like GT300s, maybe WEC will become big. Maybe it won't. No speculating from me, I'll just wait to see what happens.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

The only reason most series exist, I think, is because some people in positions of power (in leagues, in car companies, in sanctioning bodies) love racing.

This, plus it messages a few egos, and the new B2B opportunities in the paddock. I would add, having seen it firsthand, sometimes it is not about selling your product to the public through racing but rather strengthening existing business relationships by entertaining at a race weekend. I have seen tremendous brand loyalty developed for and by sponsors this way. One nifty tax write off too.

[Fogelhund]

I suggested it was a flawed premise from the outset, and I can't say recent events have changed my opinion. The WEC is basically an event of LMP1 cars and some people who like to travel," Panoz said When LMP1 is weak....

[Salamus]

I don't see how this year is any different than previous years when it comes to doom. Racing is a business and cars/manufacturers/teams will come and go. Peugeot left, Toyota came. Pescarolo ditched, JRM came. There will always be interest in sports car racing, no matter how bad it gets.

[Maelochs]

An interest yes ... but professional series? Racing is so expensive, it takes a Lot more than interest.

[ArnageWRC]

There is still a place for a World Championship for Sportscars. However, costs have to be cut. There has to be a better return on investment for teams, Manufacturers. Why aren’t more Manufacturers interested? How many of the races in the WEC are actually sponsored? I’m actually not sure having Le Mans as the be all and end all is doing the sport favours – though I know this won’t be a popular view, but the world has changed.


All involved have to cut their cloth accordingly.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

How many of the races in the WEC are actually sponsored?

Sponsored by someone outside the general WEC sponsors? Silverstone and... that's about it.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Breitling24

CTD, so in this "debate," (since you posted the thread) what is your opening argument? Gloom and doom? Why? Please explain so comments of aye or nay may be sent.

@MightyM: for a long answer, stand by, Maelochs should be composing one soon.

The thread originates from a discussion of WEC and LMP future there is in the Toyota thread between Chernaudi and me. One of the points I made was that an Audi exit might lower the spending amount enough to make the WEC and LMP's interesting for "low budget" manufactures like Mazda, Nissan and Honda. This however would lead to less spectacular techonoly cars, but "better" racing.

Originally Posted by skycafe

OK, can someone point me to a thread that is not mostly speculations and rumors?????

I am sorry, I am not trying to be a jerk (it comes naturally), but that line above just made me laugh.

I know how it sounds .
The point is just to clearly state that this thread doesn't contain anything official information about the future, and is just speculation. Normally, the debate is created by official announcement, or an expected one. Something we hopefully wont get (ei. That the WEC closes)
Said shortly, I didn't want anybody to read this thread and think it is a fact

[Acid09]

There's way too much gloom here for my taste.

John D just tweeted there will likely be 12 LMP2s...that's great news...add five or six LMP1s and you have 18 prototypes.

I don't really see how that's troublesome.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Acid09

There's way too much gloom here for my taste.

John D just tweeted there will likely be 12 LMP2s...that's great news...add five or six LMP1s and you have 18 prototypes.

I don't really see how that's troublesome.

...Everything outside of LMP1 is quite irrelevant, outside of being filler, in this championship. It is about LMP1, and as such, it's strength is based on that class.

btw, after Toyota bails on it's feeble budget attempt, and Porsche joins can we just rename this WVAGEC?

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

.
btw, after Toyota bails on it's feeble budget attempt, and Porsche joins can we just rename this WVAGEC?

Did that bother you when VAG was running the ALMS with the Audi vs. Porsche battle?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Did that bother you when VAG was running the ALMS with the Audi vs. Porsche battle?

Back in 2006 when Porsche joined the ALMS, it was not owned by VAG.