2006 msa blue book

soper · 14 Dec 2005, 15:18 (Ref:1483968)

Just got the 2006 msa blue book with my licence
Having studied the sections in Q safety relating to extuinguishers, seats and belts, my interpretation for National A/B racing is the following

Q3
Hand held extinguishers are still OK as a minimum requirement, min 1.75ltrs AFF
If AFF plumbed in is fitted then it must be FIA or MSA homologated
If Zero 2000 plumbed in is fitted then it does not need to be homologated

Q2 belts
Have to be a complete set, from a recognised manufacturer but dont have to be FIA approved, its only recommended Q2.1.4

Q2.2
Seats - No FIA requirement for the seat itself, just installation requirements

I had it in mind that for 2006 I would have to get an in date FIA approved seat, belts and plumbed in system to replace my hand held.
Is this what everyone is expecting, or is my interpretation up the creek?

ss_collins · 14 Dec 2005, 15:34 (Ref:1483980)

that was what I believed was happening - not renewed mine yet

Chris Y · 14 Dec 2005, 16:39 (Ref:1484032)

Belts and seats are as I expected, but this surprises me:

"If AFF plumbed in is fitted then it must be FIA or MSA homologated"

That's a new one. I was under the impression that all extinguishers next year needed to be plumbed in, but I don't think MSA/FIA homologation was mentioned - correct me if I'm wrong..?

brickkicker · 14 Dec 2005, 19:52 (Ref:1484175)

Am still waiting for mine, hopefully they will be out soon if people have started getting them. I was under the same impression as Chris that plumbed in was needed for next year.
Am looking forward to the night time reading :-)

RushyRacer · 14 Dec 2005, 20:55 (Ref:1484218)

What exactly does it say about seat installation? ( I suspect my Blue Book will come down the chimney or even later )

Mike Holmes · 14 Dec 2005, 21:03 (Ref:1484227)

I too thought that we had to have plumbed in extinguishers and that seat belts a current FIA date?

Eddy V · 14 Dec 2005, 21:53 (Ref:1484256)

Don't forget for those planning to race abroad (Spa, Nürburgring,...) you will need FIA approved seats, belts, helmet, even when running in a UK championship.
Not sure about France.

Anuauto · 14 Dec 2005, 23:06 (Ref:1484323)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RushyRacer

What exactly does it say about seat installation? ( I suspect my Blue Book will come down the chimney or even later )

I dont know, not having seen it, but for about 10 years the illustration/diagram of seat mounting does has not seemed consistent with the narrative section (showed strengthening plates on either side of floor but only requirement is a single welded strengthening plate)?

On a more general point, there really seems no logic for the Blur Book being put on line and then made only available to licence holders. Perhaps racing is not the best example but for other disciplines a lot of potential new competitors want to know regulations BEFORE they make any committment. Keeping it "secret" doesnt sell extra Blur Books - people just ask questions on forums etc!

MGDavid · 15 Dec 2005, 00:06 (Ref:1484345)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddy V

Don't forget for those planning to race abroad (Spa, Nürburgring,...) you will need FIA approved seats, belts, helmet, even when running in a UK championship.

Not sure about France.

>>> because France is becoming a region of the UK perhaps?

soper · 16 Dec 2005, 08:53 (Ref:1485171)

Having studied the blue book in more detail I have found the critical sections relating to extinguishers & belts :

J20.14.7 Be fitted with an extinguisher in accordace with Q.3.1.2 (a or b depending on age of car) - calls for a plumbed in medium system for all cars after 1966, (only FIA homologated if AFF)

J.20.14.2 be fitted with a currently FIA homologated belt

Chris Y · 16 Dec 2005, 09:59 (Ref:1485192)

Great. So now the AFFF extinguisher systems have to be homologated too?

Tim Draffan · 16 Dec 2005, 13:05 (Ref:1485266)

Does that mean we have to replace the AFFF systems or are asome retrospectivley Homolgated?

Chris Y · 16 Dec 2005, 14:06 (Ref:1485307)

I don't think I've ever seen anything retrospectively homologated!

This annoys me. <rant> We've been previously warned about having a plumbed-in extinguisher for next year, and that in itself brings up more questions - i.e. I bought a system that was/is described as 'plumbed-in' - still for sale at Demon Tweeks, and yet it resembles a hand-held extinguisher bottle with a different nozzle and some tubing. How are the scrutes to know what is a plumbed-in system by design, and what is a hand-held, adapted for using pipework (which is apparently not allowed in the new regs)

And now it seems that the systems have to be FIA homologated too? We weren't told about that part before now. </rant>

Robyn Slater · 16 Dec 2005, 16:54 (Ref:1485406)

Any scrutineers out there who could interprit these new regs?

RobC · 16 Dec 2005, 17:09 (Ref:1485418)

Blimey this is getting complicated......think we need someone in the know to explain it all to us. I've got a 2.25ltr Lifeline Zero 2000 plumbed in system in mine.....just had it refilled as well...does this mean I've wasted my money....confused...I am!

schomosport · 16 Dec 2005, 17:55 (Ref:1485434)

Don't have a 2006 Blue Book as yet but don't confuse 'FIA homologated' and 'for use in FIA santioned events'. I think you will find (from looking a the various motorsport supplier catalogues' that most systems offered in the UK are FIA homologated. In general I believe bottle capacities are smaller in the UK. In otherwords you can have an FIA approved system that is acceptable in an MSA authorised event but won't be acceptable in an FIA sanctioned event becasue they usually require 4 litre bottles. (I think!!!).

If, as is being hinted at by the MSA, that the MSA is going to align its future requirments with the FIA then we may all have to use 4 litre systems. Where you are going to put a 4 litre bottle in a single seater racing car never designed to accomodate such a large bottle e.g. a 20 year old F3 car, is not clear...... And then I suppose they will want a bag certificate for the fuel cell and this replacing every couple of years at goodness knows what a throw.

RobC · 16 Dec 2005, 17:59 (Ref:1485437)

I've currently got one of these installed Lifeline 2000 according to the blurb it is MSA compliant. Question is can I run with this next year or do I have to invest in a FIA (4ltr) one now?

Tim Wilkinson · 16 Dec 2005, 22:46 (Ref:1485574)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robyn Slater

Any scrutineers out there who could interprit these new regs?

This is part of the problem - the blue book isn't at all easy for laymen to understand.
I'd like to think i'm not daft, and have studied the blue book pretty hard and will continue to do so, but live in fear of turning up for a meeting and failing scrutineering for something that i've misinterpreted or overlooked. Although my car has raced before, it was a coupel of years ago, so has to be treated as a "new build" to check everything still complies.

It really only makes it harder for new racers to get involved. [/$0.02]

Al Weyman · 17 Dec 2005, 11:02 (Ref:1485702)

Well I have bought one sold as a plumbed in one 6 months ago but could be decribed as as usable as a handheld I guess and if it gets rejected in 2006 then thats it I am finished with the sport, end of as I can't keep chucking money changing things every 5 minutes on someones whim!

**dtype38** · 17 Dec 2005, 18:33 (Ref:1485841)

Ok, with comments like that Al, I think its time for my twopenneth...

IMHO MSA Scrutineers are NOT traffic wardens. They are NOT there for the express purpose of making your life a misery or to keep your car off the race track. OK, some are more zealous in their application of the Blue Book than others. Some are more interested in particular areas of the Blue Book than others. I honestly believe this is based on their personal experiences of accidents and tragedies on race tracks and the reasons they happened.

So... when a scrutineer checks your extinguisher system complies to every last requirement, take it that he's seen someone fried in a petrol fire because his extinguisher didn't work. When he checks your bulkhead for holes, take it that he's seen someone with fried legs from a gaping hole that shouldn't have been there. When he checks your seat and harness are attached properly and have the right labels, take it that he's seen someone splatted over the tarmac because he wasn't fixed in properly.

When you go into the Scrutineering bay, the bloke with the tag and the blue shirt is your friend... really! Treat him like that. It might just make the difference of you surviving your next trip out on track. When you realise that, and you let him know that, then, and only then, you might be allowed to have a reasonable discussion about interpreting the Blue Book. Then, you might just find that the bloke in the blue shirt is actually enthusiastic about you being out there and competing. In my humble experience, he might also be willing to find a compromise which will keep you safe and keep you racing.

One thing is certain though. If you treat the scrutineering bay as a war zone... sooner or later you'll come off second best! And it isn't the scrutineer who'll be loosing out.

big andy · 17 Dec 2005, 19:08 (Ref:1485856)

im with you al, if my plumbed in system was good enouth last year to save my life why not this year?(2006).just to put the record straight i rang the MSA ,this is what they said any car upto 1969 1.75 hand held ,69 to present 2.25 plumbed in does not have to be FIA homologated so a plumbed in hand held system like the ones demon tweeks sell for £100 will br fine

Al Weyman · 17 Dec 2005, 19:21 (Ref:1485859)

OK Andy so it looks like it is OK just the vaguries of the Blue book again I guess.

Dtype I am not having a go at the police force here but the politicians i.e. not the scrutineer but the people who decide these things and if I have bought brand new and fitted 6 months ago and it has passed scrutinering three times in 2005 how on earth can it suddenly be incorrect when I have purchased in good faith from a company that presumably are kept informed as to what will be required the following season and if not then why not. If Andy's interpretation is correct there should be no problem anyhow so hopefully it is all academic.

**dtype38** · 17 Dec 2005, 22:38 (Ref:1485895)

Fair point Al.... and my wife and I spent nearly a grand last year changing our ownership of our house from "joint" to "ownership in common" to take advantage of a tax break that would double our kids' inheritance tax allowance should we have an unfortunate accident. This year the Chancellor changed the rules so that it makes no difference, which means we wasted our money. So life's not fair. Whatch gonna do? If you give up because someone decides to change some rule which means that you wasted some of your hard earned cash, who loses?

Life

Over it

MGDavid · 17 Dec 2005, 23:26 (Ref:1485908)

or to put it another way -
non illegitima carborundum est

Al Weyman · 17 Dec 2005, 23:29 (Ref:1485910)

There comes a point where you say enough is enough though surely how ever much you love the sport and there are always trackdays as an alternative, and people ask why are grids falling, amazing, go on MSA carry on killing the golden goose.

Off topic but on your point. I heard a story on the new government rules on inheritance tax and co habiting gay couples that could really backfire on them. Apparently some same sex but hetrosexual people are already making out they are a 'couple' to take advantage of the situation, I mean there was nothing in the ruling that said they had to have a sexual relationship just co-habiting, another soon to be famous government cock up you watch.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Marshals and the Blue book	ss_collins	Marshals Forum	72	8 Jan 2006 00:17
2006 blue book - ref h/climbs	pilbeam buddy	National & Club Racing	49	3 Jan 2006 11:15
Blue Book changes for 2004	JimW	Marshals Forum	26	5 Feb 2004 12:45