[Team] Ferrari: in F1

[Adam43]

The article refers to post Singapore. He wrote that in 5th October referring to any additional second sensor Singapore when the performance then dropped.

A story published post-Sochi suggested that a second sensor had been fitted to the Ferrari since Singapore, at the FIA’s insistence, and that this had clipped Ferrari’s wings. The FIA’s Charlie Whiting has refuted that absolutely here in Suzuka. There have been no additional sensors fitted to the Ferrari. That is unambiguously the case. Disinformation is being spread by the teams, and that story was a direct result of this. We can forget stories of a second sensor as an explanation. It didn’t happen.

In the Times on the 7th I read that the new sensors as being fitted back in May when there was no change, or even and improvement in performance relative. No additional sensors since then presumably.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...7160557942c937

On the eve of this race, Vettel had won five times this season but of late the Ferrari have lagged behind Mercedes on raw performance as the British-based team have aggressively developed their car. Stories circulating before the weekend that Ferrari had been stymied recently by the governing body requesting an additional sensor to measure the energy flows of the car’s unique twin battery arrangement were wide of the mark.

This change was made way back in May, long before the car’s recent drop-off in form, which is more likely linked to the significant boost in performance from Mercedes and concern at Ferrari about keeping strain off its high-mileage engines so as not to suffer grid penalties for going over the seasonal allocation.

[greentrumpet]

Originally Posted by wnut

Nope, he is saying he doesn't buy the reason advanced, and the actual reason is that the FIA has stopped Ferrari doing something with the sensor.

Personally, I don't get how Ferrari can be stopped doing something that wasn't specified in the regulations, and if they were why does the FIA not just come out and specify what everyone is now not allowed to do?

That's exactly how I see it wnut, at first I thought Mercedes had worked out Ferrari's "tricks" and emulated them. It all seems to be down to mid straight speed, Ferrari had it just as others were running out of electrical energy. The FIA mandated an extra sensor and since then although Ferrari have not been accused of wrongdoing their apparent advantage has gone, albeit in steps. Perhaps a bit like the Haas floor an interpretation of the rules that they have been asked to reconsider and having done so the "trick" has not been exposed.

[F1Guy]

The covering up of the FiA camera saga continued at the Japanese GP.

Other teams are not happy that FiA/FOM have failed to stop Ferrari from covering up their camera, and have resorted to doing the same.

So in essence - Ferrari have had access to video of all other teams activities through the onboard FiA camera, but the other teams do not have access to Ferrari. So other teams have also started to block the view of the FiA camera on the grid and in the garages.

Images below from the Japanese GP of some of the other teams covering up the camera.








I feel a ruling may come to play soon, if not for next year.

[Adam43]

This is a really odd fetish you have.

It can also be found with the more mature model if that’s what floats your boat.

[loon]

why not just remove all the on board cameras from all the cars and have done with it

[Akrapovic]

McLaren are clearly up to something. They're covering the camera and magically the car is getting worse. Must be some sort of sensor issue. Maybe Ron Dennis never left McLaren, secretly planted people inside the FIA, and is allowing McLaren through technical inspections when it shouldn't be. Now he's been found out so the MagicSensorTM has been added that showed it had double the horse power. So now they have to cover the steering wheel. That's the only possible explanation for these extremely suspicious umbrellas.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by loon

why not just remove all the on board cameras from all the cars and have done with it

No way, onboards are fun to watch!

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

This is a really odd fetish you have.

It can also be found with the more mature model if that’s what floats your boat.

Its an old fetish, but most are...

[F1Guy]

So... Ferrari have lost another drivers championship this year. And, added to a very good chance of at least a drivers championship last year, Ferrari should be back to back drivers champions. And possibly even back to back constructors champions. But, they are not. Why?

The simple answer is mistakes. Mistakes by the team, but more so, mistakes by their lead driver. Vettel has been Ferrari's weakest link. The car was very capable of winning the championship this year, and last year. But Vettel's mistakes has cost Ferrari two championships.

I've posted the question before on here, what would have Alonso been able to achieve in the 2017 Ferrari? And in this years Ferrari? IMO, if Alonso was driving the Ferrari of the last two seasons, Ferrari would be back to back champions. I have no doubt about it. Martin Brundle and David Coulthard are two of many F1 pundits that have said Alonso would've been 2017 drivers champion in the Ferrari.

Did Ferrari make a mistake by letting Alonso go?

An article on motorsportweek.com tries to answer the above question.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/20537

[S griffin]

I'll go along with that. Vettel is great and all, but he is no Alonso. Alonso makes very few mistakes and always gives his maximum

[Cinghio44]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

So... Ferrari have lost another drivers championship this year. And, added to a very good chance of at least a drivers championship last year, Ferrari should be back to back drivers champions. And possibly even back to back constructors champions. But, they are not. Why?

The simple answer is mistakes. Mistakes by the team, but more so, mistakes by their lead driver. Vettel has been Ferrari's weakest link. The car was very capable of winning the championship this year, and last year. But Vettel's mistakes has cost Ferrari two championships.

I've posted the question before on here, what would have Alonso been able to achieve in the 2017 Ferrari? And in this years Ferrari? IMO, if Alonso was driving the Ferrari of the last two seasons, Ferrari would be back to back champions. I have no doubt about it. Martin Brundle and David Coulthard are two of many F1 pundits that have said Alonso would've been 2017 drivers champion in the Ferrari.

Did Ferrari make a mistake by letting Alonso go?

An article on motorsportweek.com tries to answer the above question.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/20537

Alonso is one of my favourite driver but life goes on. The best Alonso would surely have won two titles with this car. Now Nando it's not unbeateble I think, he has loss something although he showed good things with the uncompetitive McLaren.

Vettel is a great driver, very fast but he's not proved to be a champions. That's my opinion. When he won championships the Red Bull was simply unbeateble and with more luck and less strategic mistakes by Ferrari, Alonso could won at least one title. Then when the RB became less competitive, Vettel was beaten by Ricciardo. I think also the best Raikkonen (2006-2007) would have beaten this Vettel.

The problem in Ferrari is that they haven't a leader. I'm feeling that Arrivabene has a short life in the team as he is always saying "we will give everything to conquer the manufacturer title now". Ferrari lack of a real leadership from the Schumacher period, when Todt, Brawn and Byrne were all onboard. Since then nothing...

[S griffin]

It’s definitely more Italian these days, just like it always was before the Todt/Byrne/Brawn/Schumi era

[chillibowl]

as good as Alonso is i feel like he would not have handled himself well during this time of internal drama Ferrari are currently and allegedly embroiled in.

past history, but adding Alonso to the mix could very well have been like adding oil to a fire.

the SV/KR pairing probably gave Ferrari the stability to even mount a comeback challenge in the first place.

[Kempi]

Alonso was at Ferrari. They had one real chance at the championship. During Vettel's time there were two chances. Alonso may be the better driver but is he the better teamplayer? That is also to consider when considering who would have produced the better outcome.

[Cinghio44]

When Alonso was in the Ferrari, I had the impression that he was still in his best mood in F1. The problem was that the car did not perform as the Red Bull. He had some chances but they were ruined by poor strategies and also poor luck (the Grosjean crash in SPA). But surely Ferrari could make a better car in that time.

Now I feel the story is different. Ferrari is showing that they can produce a good car, but behind there is not the a leadership that lead to a win! In my opinion to choose Vettel as first leading driver was a good choice, but if really want to win, you had to choose also a second competitive driver. I don't think that now Kimi has the speed to challenge an Hamilton or even a Verstappen or Ricciardo. In doing this (chosing Raikkonen as a stable mate of Vette) you gave total trust to Vettel, a driver that has showed that can't manage pressure well.

So for me, Vettel is okay but only with an other competitive driver who can have at least a chance to play for the title and challenging a phenomenal fast driver like Hamilton. Raikkonen has done a good job as a 2° driver but I feel he couldn't give further.

In conclusion. In my opinion who made choices in the team has done big mistakes. Ferrari has the potential to win again but it's delayed by a poor managing view...

It's harsh I know and probably there are things that I haven't seen. But as far as drivers choosing/managing concerned, it could have been done better

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

as good as Alonso is i feel like he would not have handled himself well during this time of internal drama Ferrari are currently and allegedly embroiled in.

past history, but adding Alonso to the mix could very well have been like adding oil to a fire.

the SV/KR pairing probably gave Ferrari the stability to even mount a comeback challenge in the first place.

This about sums it up. As good as the recently released Motorsport Manager game is, there's more to it than find the driver with the highest stat and stick him in the car with the highest stat. Fernandos relationship with Ferrari degraded to the point where he couldn't stay. In a simplistic world where we just look at numbers, Fernando probably would've done better than Vettel this year. Not sure he'd have beaten Lewis, but probably better than Vettel. But we don't live in a simple world.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Cinghio44

When Alonso was in the Ferrari, I had the impression that he was still in his best mood in F1. The problem was that the car did not perform as the Red Bull. He had some chances but they were ruined by poor strategies and also poor luck (the Grosjean crash in SPA). But surely Ferrari could make a better car in that time.

Now I feel the story is different. Ferrari is showing that they can produce a good car, but behind there is not the a leadership that lead to a win! In my opinion to choose Vettel as first leading driver was a good choice, but if really want to win, you had to choose also a second competitive driver. I don't think that now Kimi has the speed to challenge an Hamilton or even a Verstappen or Ricciardo. In doing this (chosing Raikkonen as a stable mate of Vette) you gave total trust to Vettel, a driver that has showed that can't manage pressure well.

So for me, Vettel is okay but only with an other competitive driver who can have at least a chance to play for the title and challenging a phenomenal fast driver like Hamilton. Raikkonen has done a good job as a 2° driver but I feel he couldn't give further.

In conclusion. In my opinion who made choices in the team has done big mistakes. Ferrari has the potential to win again but it's delayed by a poor managing view...
It's harsh I know and probably there are things that I haven't seen. But as far as drivers choosing/managing concerned, it could have been done better

Picking up on the above:

To me Maurizio Arrivabene is Ferrari's biggest problem, what is the Italian press' take on his leadership?

I always felt the Sergio Marchionne kept the whole show balanced, and Ferrari's immediate problems following his loss would seem to add credibility to the theory.

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by wnut

I always felt the Sergio Marchionne kept the whole show balanced, and Ferrari's immediate problems following his loss would seem to add credibility to the theory.

Marchionne passed away somewhere around July 2017 yes? Because I seem to remember the wheels falling off Ferrari's title hopes round about then. If so, then yes, it adds credibility to your theory.

[F1Guy]

As for the Italian media, here are some reports about the Italian press reactions this season. In English.

Post French GP
https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/1...nch-gp-errors/

Post German GP
https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/2...ing-german-gp/

Post Italian GP
https://www.grandprix247.com/2018/07...aise-hamilton/

Post Japanese GP
https://autoweek.com/article/formula...japanese-grand


This is not something new. The Italian media has laid on the criticism of Vettel going back to the 2016 season. http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/vi...dia_criticism/

He is not seen in the same light as some of the most recent past Ferrari drivers, like Alonso, and Massa. Even Raikkonen is much more popular than Vettel is. They say... that the Italians are good at spotting a fake. Not sure if that extends to F1 drivers as well though.

[Cinghio44]

Originally Posted by wnut

Picking up on the above:

what is the Italian press' take on his leadership?

In all these years I always haven't read absolute nothing on this side!! Here if you talk bad about Ferrari you just screw your work. The italian supporters of Ferrari are really passionate about it but are also completely blind. Now a lot of the press has point the finger at Vettel.

What I read on Arrivabene, but only in some spaces, is that maybe he could leave Ferrari at the end of the year. It seems to me that now he has a lot of pressure as he talks like they have to win the constructors championship necessarily. But I feel also that he has already some plan to do other after F1

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Marchionne passed away somewhere around July 2017 yes? Because I seem to remember the wheels falling off Ferrari's title hopes round about then. If so, then yes, it adds credibility to your theory.

It was only this summer.

[crmalcolm]

Ferrari's inability to claim a WDC in the past few seasons seems to have resulted in a need for a scapegoat. Which brings the thought to mind - Why is the Narcissist obsesses with their scapegoat?

In any sporting contest, there has to be those who do not win. It seems extremely difficult for some to accept this at times without need to try and justify a failing....

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Cinghio44

In all these years I always haven't read absolute nothing on this side!! Here if you talk bad about Ferrari you just screw your work. The italian supporters of Ferrari are really passionate about it but are also completely blind. Now a lot of the press has point the finger at Vettel.

What I read on Arrivabene, but only in some spaces, is that maybe he could leave Ferrari at the end of the year. It seems to me that now he has a lot of pressure as he talks like they have to win the constructors championship necessarily. But I feel also that he has already some plan to do other after F1

Thanks Cinghio, it is always interesting to have an insight into something from a perspective that is denied to you.

[Cinghio44]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

In any sporting contest, there has to be those who do not win. It seems extremely difficult for some to accept this at times without need to try and justify a failing....

I agree. Mercedes and Hamilton won because they did better than Vettel and Ferrari.

But with the resources that Ferrari uses every season and all the money spent, you have to ask yourselfs what's gone wrong. Ferrari don't win anything since 2007!!

And as happen in all the big industries/society, you have to deliver the result otherwise you're out.

In my view of Motorsport, I think that the role with high responsability has to be taken by competent person who had experience in Motorsport. Todt for example has been involved actively in Motorsport as rally co-driver, Toto Wolff and Horner were drivers in the past. Arrivabene has always managing marketing and commercial strategies for his employers, and even if he was often inside the world Ferrari F1, he was not involved in first person in Motorsport.

He choosed Vettel and confirmed the latter, he choosed Raikkonen and confirmed him in these seasons. He choosed the strategists and he's responsible for wins or fails. If Ferrari is happy with results they can continue keeping the actual team.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Ferrari's inability to claim a WDC in the past few seasons seems to have resulted in a need for a scapegoat. Which brings the thought to mind - Why is the Narcissist obsesses with their scapegoat?

In any sporting contest, there has to be those who do not win. It seems extremely difficult for some to accept this at times without need to try and justify a failing....

I couldn't agree more with this!