ALMS 2009 Discussion

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I know it's off-topic but with ACO restricting the power of production based LMP1 engines compared to this year. Will Aston Martin change their strategy and focus more on the GT2 car?

Well if AMR do not put some real effort into the GT car they are stupid! There is much more potential for customers in it, than in an engine/rear package for a Lola coupe. IMO


L.P.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by dxk1

While you could be right, I thought that Enge and Mucke gave a pretty good preview of what could happen with the AM Vantage in Zolder. The car ran with the Porsches and Ferraris until it had an off. A nice winter of development could put them in the hunt.

DK

Could be AM or Pro-Drive worked out the suspension mounting points to the aluminum frame. Where the failures were

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by airbusA346

I thought the engine in the Lola-Aston was classed as a production based GT1 engine??

Tom.

Symantics, you both are saying the same thing, I believe. Production based in P-1 = homologated GT-1 production based engines.



L.P.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Symantics, you both are saying the same thing, I believe. Production based in P-1 = homologated GT-1 production based engines.



L.P.

Yep

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Symantics, you both are saying the same thing, I believe. Production based in P-1 = homologated GT-1 production based engines.



L.P.

Semantics I know but it's semantics not symantics

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Semantics I know but it's semantics not symantics

Oops, oh well, and some times its just plain simian antics!


L.P.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Hmm, really? Also I could of swore that there were bold highlighted question marks on almost every team that you mention.



L.P.

I guess I am just having trouble with all of the rose-coloured shades type optimism going on here. The world is not at an end, by any means, but to think that the financial market will stabilize, let alone facilitate growth, before 2011 is rather naive imo. I do get that you placed speculative marks on all of those, but it seems that many are as likely as not going to be absent. Kinda paints a brighter picture than reality is all I'm suggesting.

Far be it from me to think that Murphy is full of it, but I'm trying to figure out where the $$ to run these extra 2 P1 Acuras is coming from, and why they would bother at this stage in the learning game. Is 2 not enough for them to figure out what they need to know from their first crack? I mean, don't get me wrong, I want more cars, but I also like sustainable business models.

Where is this Drayson-White business coming from, anyway? Last I heard it was the Drayson part of the equation most likely to be taking a hike, not the Barwell part (though imo, I think they will both leave together).

[TWK]

Originally Posted by cmk

I guess I am just having trouble with all of the rose-coloured shades type optimism going on here. The world is not at an end, by any means, but to think that the financial market will stabilize, let alone facilitate growth, before 2011 is rather naive imo. I do get that you placed speculative marks on all of those, but it seems that many are as likely as not going to be absent. Kinda paints a brighter picture than reality is all I'm suggesting.

Far be it from me to think that Murphy is full of it, but I'm trying to figure out where the $$ to run these extra 2 P1 Acuras is coming from, and why they would bother at this stage in the learning game. Is 2 not enough for them to figure out what they need to know from their first crack? I mean, don't get me wrong, I want more cars, but I also like sustainable business models.

Where is this Drayson-White business coming from, anyway? Last I heard it was the Drayson part of the equation most likely to be taking a hike, not the Barwell part (though imo, I think they will both leave together).

Actually, Murphy said more than once in his Poop that it looked tough, that the downside was more probable. As always, he is reporting what he heard in the paddock, and there are those who have said those two teams would at least like to field two cars. They may not...likely will not.

It was also said (and reported) that B-K wants to run another car. That doesn't mean Murphy believes it will happen. Drayson? One rumor has him going to the LMS, one staying in the ALMS, one nowhere. I guess no one knows.

The Bear thinks the total grid will be lucky to make 25. On the other hand, the two P1 Acura teams are far more likely to be able to fund a second car than some teams currently in the series to fund one. Notice that Murphy did not mention Drayson or Dale White. He was told that Dale is "making progress," but that's not news...he reported that a long time ago.

You ask the right question. Where will the money come from? For many, the answer is going to be "nowhere."

[cmk]

My comment about over-optimism referred to Horndawg's list, not to Murphy. I would not say that anything in the latest bear columns qualified as rose-tinted shade-influenced commentary. In general, the tone of the latest column rather agrees with my own view of things these days. I only hope that, in a year or two, we can again find this year's growth. Still, tough times ahead...

[JAG]

Originally Posted by JAG

Does Porsche have the pulling power to help put together a deal for some unknown team to race a Spyder or two in the ALMS?

How many chassis, engineers etc would they have if so many of these Spyder teams fail to return.

Or as one report suggests, are Porsche gearing up for a P1 hybrid return in 2010, presumably with much of the Spyder 'P2' technology.

There's speculation on Mariantic that Penske will develop the P1 Porsche in 2009/10, to prepare for a return to Le Mans.

I wouldn't be suprised if the ACO allow these new generation P1's to compete for overall wins in 2010, especially if most manufacturer's were preparing such smaller engined-hybrid cars.

[mpme]

Originally Posted by joeb

Nice list Horndawg! I appreciate the speculative optimism! That Audi model is a big ?, will Audi allow someone to run R-10's, or will the new car be ready?

It's a shame to see that the numbers in P2 will likely drop from this year.

Keeping with the optimism, maybe 2009 will have lower car counts, but it could just be a calm before the onslaught of new machines for 2010 season! In prep for the new rules!

Audi will be back next year. No new car for the ALMS, at least for right now.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by mpme

Audi will be back next year. No new car for the ALMS, at least for right now.

So R10's it is. I guess the next question would be if they will be run under the same banner as this year, or will Champion officially run the cars.

[rich07]

So they will run a new car in LMS/Le Mans to take on Peugeot and leave the R10 to take on Acura and possibly Penske in ALMS. Maybe??

[mpme]

Originally Posted by joeb

So R10's it is. I guess the next question would be if they will be run under the same banner as this year, or will Champion officially run the cars.

Expect same as this year, but with a fairly updated and improved car.

[Cuttlefish]

That's too bad, I'd liketo see the good ole' Champion paint scheme on the cars... and the return of #38.

[chernaudi]

I think the Audi R15 vs R10 is simply a matter of supply-Audi has always run their new cars at Sebring, then freighted them back to Europe for testing/running in the LMS in this case, and the new cars came back to the US after Le Mans-it happened with the R8 in 2000, and the R10 in '06.

The problems that Audi will have is getting enough R15s built to do the ALMS/LMS at the same time, hence the R10 running at least the races between Sebring and Le Mans. And if there was a time that Audi can do so and still win races in the ALMS, it would be early '09-they won't have to worry about LMP2 cars anymore, and the new Acura will use a conventional engine/drivetrain for '09(Berkmann said so on Wind Tunnel Sunday night), and even he admitted that the new car could be unrelialble, and maybe even down on speed to the R10, inspite of the R10 being a much older car, and the restictions that IMSA and the ACO are likely to impose on it(the 10% power reduction).

[TWK]

Originally Posted by joeb

So R10's it is. I guess the next question would be if they will be run under the same banner as this year, or will Champion officially run the cars.

The best possible source said at Petit that it will be "Audi Sport for the next two years."

[Rodger Davies]

Originally Posted by Dutton

What is the deal with the torture that is GT1? Going to be three cars once more?

with a bit of luck it will become 0, although I hope Chevrolet don't plan on running a full P&M factory effort in GT(2) and will let semi-privateers have a chance.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

with a bit of luck it will become 0, although I hope Chevrolet don't plan on running a full P&M factory effort in GT(2) and will let semi-privateers have a chance.

Do you really think that the current teams in GT2 worry about ANY Corvette entry, "full factory" or otherwise? Unlike those who have competed in GT1, they don't whine...they just get on with kicking a**. And they are just as "full" in factory developement as anyone.

Don't confuse Risi, Flying Lizard, Tafel, Rahal and the work being put in by Ferrari, BMW, and Porsche in development and support with ******s like AM and Prodrive.

[Hugewally]

P&M will run the factory effort in GT2. Though they will also sell current GT2 cars to customers too.

[Dutton]

So, GT1 is gone and P&M are switching to GT2? Is this confirmed status? I just get myself eternally confused with trying to keep track of what the sportscar world is doing with itself.

If GT1 goes to zero, which I would be most glad if it does, is the idea just to run GT2 or will there be a GT3 created? Will GT2 be left as GT2, or rebadged as simply GT?

I apologise if I ask obvious questions, but the workings of the sportscar world frazzles my head a bit at times.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Dutton

So, GT1 is gone and P&M are switching to GT2?

Not exactly. Different order of events. P&M is switching to GT2 and GT1 is gone. (de facto, in ALMS).

Originally Posted by Dutton

Is this confirmed status?

Yes

[Dutton]

Well, yeah, that is what I meant. I worded it badly.

Thank you kindly. What good news, really, to my mind. It has always been rather pathetic seeing GT1 existing in such a sorry state.

[SebringMG]

Originally Posted by TWK

Don't confuse Risi, Flying Lizard, Tafel, Rahal and the work being put in by Ferrari, BMW, and Porsche in development and support with ******s like AM and Prodrive.

Your just bitter they beat the Vettes at LM without any performance enhancements handed down by G H-Cs tiresome whining lol

[Aslak Vind]

Prodrive won LM with a 3 year old chassis, now that is something..