Argentinian Turismo Carretera

[Speed-King]

A question for our Argentinian members, though not about TC2000.

I just stumbled across the Turismo Carretera website, and I am a bit at loss, what all those different sub-championships are.

There's the regular Tourismo Carretera-championship, and then there's a championship called Mouras, which I supposse means Street Races, and one called Pista, which I supposse means regular race track, but then there's also a Pistas Mouras championship. Now what's the difference between that one and the regular Turismo Carretera championship?

[FIRE]

Aren't that support series? In NASCAR there's Sprint Cup (highest level), Nationwide (2nd level) and Truck series (3rd level).

See results at La Plata:
TC: http://www.actc.org.ar/php/resultado...000000107&tc=0 (49 cars on the grid!!!)
TC Pista: http://www.actc.org.ar/php/resultado...000000107&tc=1
TC Mouras: http://www.actc.org.ar/php/resultado...000000029&tc=2
TC Mouras Pista: http://www.actc.org.ar/php/resultado...000000029&tc=3

TC is fastest, TC Mouras Pista slowest.

Cars look even worse as Daytona Prototypes but grids are big and racing is good.

[Dani Filth]

yeah .. cars are ugly but I don't know why .. I find them so cool for year 2010

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Dani Filth

yeah .. cars are ugly but I don't know why .. I find them so cool for year 2010

Yeah

Argentinians are real petrolheads

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by FIRE

.

Cars look even worse as Daytona Prototypes but grids are big and racing is good.

Heh, the Grand Am discussion over at the sportscar board was why I looked them up...

[NaBUru38]

I would hardly describe TCs are "touring cars". They are prototypes woth 1970s road car lookalike bodies. I find them very ugly, but it's the most popular series of the country.

The TC Pista is the support series to the TC (like the Nascar Nationwide Series). The TC Mouras and TC Pista Mouras (the latter started in 2009) only race at the Gálvez (Buenos Aires city) and circuits in the Buenos Aires province (OlavarrÃ*a, 9 de Julio, La Plata, etc.).

[FIRE]

What are the differences between the cars? From the photos I have seen they look the same. Or do they have same chassis + body but different engine power?

[Mekola]

All four traditional cars in Turismo Carretera (Ford Falcon, Chevrolet Chevy, Dodge, Torino) could be identified specially if they're seen at the side, specially watching the rear of the car and the inclination of rear windows: the Falcons have the shortest tails, the Dodge have the longest ones, the Chevy have it quite inclined, and these of the Torinos are also long but with rounded edges. All cars are now built as silhouettes with only the rooftop and engine block (only at Ford and Chevy cases) from the original car. Torinos and Dodges are using Cherokee engines.

[FIRE]

I mean what are the differences between the cars of TC, TC Pista, TC Mouras and TC Pista Mouras. So for example is the Ford TC car the same as the Ford TC Mouras car?

[Mekola]

Main diferences among Turismo Carretera classes are on technical regulations, chassis are generally the same. TC Pista has different gearboxes, engine tunings and carburators than main Turismo Carretera, in order to run slightly slower than the main series, and so on.
It's normal to see old Turismo Carretera cars running at TC Pista, adjusted to the support series regulations.

[FIRE]

What do these cars cost?
What budget is needed for a season?

[Mekola]

According to this link, a budget from U$S 250K to 400K is necessary to race a car for a complete season.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Mekola

According to this link, a budget from U$S 250K to 400K is necessary to race a car for a complete season.

Not cheap...

[Speed-King]

Actually I would've expected higher budgets. It's a 16 race season after all and huge fields normally make for big repair bills...

[rustyfan]

Are there any Turismo Carretera season review DVDs available? Or even VHS tapes, for that matter.

As for the cars, they might not be pretty, but they do have a rather gritty old school-look to them that I just love.

[NaBUru38]

The first weekend of the season at Mar de Ajó circuit (Buenos Aires province) is over.

Final race results:

1° Emanuel Moriatis, Ford
2° Jonatan Castellano, Dodge
3° Guido Falaschi, Ford
4° Mariano Werner, Ford
5° Christian Ledesma, Chevrolet
6° José Savino, Ford
7° Mariano Altuna, Chevrolet
8° Gabriel Ponce De Leon, Ford
9° Guillermo Ortelli, Chevrolet
10° Lionel Ugalde, Ford
11° Juan Marcos Angelini, Dodge
12° J. Manuel Silva, Ford
13° Omar Martinez, Ford
14° Norberto Fontana, Torino
15° Juan Pablo Gianini, Ford
24° Lionel PernÃ*a, Chevrolet
38° MatÃ*as Rossi, Chevrolet
44° Diego AventÃ*n, Ford
45° Emiliano Spataro, Chevrolet

Standings:

1º Emanuel Moriatis, Ford 27.00
2º Jonatan Castellano, Dodge 21.00
3º Guido Falaschi, Ford 18.00
4º Mariano Werner, Ford 15.50
5º Christian Ledesma, Chevrolet 13.50
6º José Savino, Ford 13.00
7º Mariano Altuna, Chevrolet 12.00
8º Gabriel Ponce De León, Ford 10.50
9º Lionel Ugalde, Ford 9.50
10º Guillermo Ortelli, Chevrolet 9.00
11º Norberto Fontana, Torino 8.50
12º Juan Marcos Angelini, Dodge 8.00
13º Omar MartÃ*nez, Ford 7.50
14º Juan Manuel Silva, Ford 7.00
15º Juan Pablo Gianini, Ford 6.50

[NaBUru38]

The second round was held today at the Autódromo Juan Manuel Fangio in Balcarce, Buenos Aires Province. The Chueco himself helped to design the track, together with the same people who made the Autódromo Eduardo Copello "El Zonda" in San Juan - both are two of the most beautiful circuits of the continent.

Final race results:

1. Omar MartÃ*nez, Ford
2. Christian Ledesma, Chevrolet
3. Juan Bautista de Benedictis, Ford
4. Juan Marcos Angelini, Dodge
5. Emanuel Moriatis, Ford
6. José Savino, Ford
7. AgustÃ*n Canapino, Chevrolet
8. Omar Tanoni, Ford
9. Próspero Bonelli, Ford
10. Mariano Werner, Ford
11. Lionel Ugalde, Ford
12. Juan Manuel Silva, Ford
13. Mathias Nolesi, Ford
14. Juan Pablo Gianini, Ford
15. Diego AventÃ*n, Ford
19. Guillermo Ortelli, Chevrolet
22. Leonel PernÃ*a, Chevrolet
33. Mariano Altuna, Chevrolet
DNF. Gabriel Ponce de León, Ford
DNF. Norberto Fontana, Torino
DNF. Martin Basso, Torino
DNS. MatÃ*as Rossi, Chevrolet

Standings:

1. Emanuel Moriatis, Ford - 41.00
2. Christian Ledesma, Chevrolet - 34.50
3. Omar MartÃ*nez, Ford - 32.50
4. José Savino, Ford - 26.50
5. Jonatan Castellano, Dodge - 26.00
6. Mariano Werner, Ford - 23.50
7. Juan Marcos Angelini, Dodge - 23.50
8. Guido Falaschi, Ford - 22.50
9. Juan Bautista de Benedictis, Ford - 19.50
10. AgustÃ*n Canapino, Chevrolet - 17.50
11. Gabriel Ponce de León, Ford - 16.50
12. Lionel Ugalde, Ford - 16.00
13. Omar Tanoni, Ford - 16.00
14. Prospero Bonelli, Ford - 15.50
15. Mariano Altuna, Chevrolet - 14.50
16. Juan Manuel Silva, Ford - 14.50
17. Guillermo Ortelli, Chevrolet - 14.00
21. Norberto Fontana, Torino - 9.50
25. Leonel PernÃ*a, Chevrolet - 7.50
34. MartÃ*n Basso, Torino - 3.00
38. MatÃ*as Rossi, Chevrolet - 2.50
46. Emiliano Spataro, Chevrolet - 1.50

[Belatti]

Originally Posted by rustyfan

Are there any Turismo Carretera season review DVDs available? Or even VHS tapes, for that matter.

As for the cars, they might not be pretty, but they do have a rather gritty old school-look to them that I just love.

Check this webpage:
http://www.carburando.com.ar/

Look at the right side of the page.
"MUNDO DEL TC 2009"
Yearbook + 3 hours DVD + Photos
But its only sold in shops arround here....

You can see if someone can send it to you.

[Belatti]

For you to see what was NaBUru38 talking about:




Balcarce track, watching the race from the Labarrosa hill:

[Belatti]

Regarding year budgets for TC top teams, 400K USD is 200K USD short from reality.

To clarify the questions about TC and its support series, I`ll repost something I posted in another forum:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well people, to show and share with you some pics I took in one of the last TC races I went last year.
There are some interesting things to see, sometimes it may be hard to understand the whys but just in that case here are the TC Rules:
http://www.actc.org.ar/php/reglamentos.php

The first thing to understand is that there are 4 TC categories:
A) TC
B) TC Pista
C) TC Mouras
D) TC Mouras Pista

The top (and most competitive) series is the TC. When TC top teams build a new chasis, they drop their cars to smaller TC teams or to TCP teams... and top TCP teams drop their cars to TCM teams and so on.
This happens because one of the things where TC rules let engineers and designers free is in the steel frame structure. The best cars wont last more than 1 season before that they have to be reinforced/repaired with the obvious weight increase.

Structures are incredibly rigid (600Kgm torsion tests show arround 1mm deofrmations) and light taking in account that they are Ø50mm x 1.25mm MIG or TIG welded steel tubes.


In those 4 categories there are 4 "types" of cars allowed:






It is mainly because of tradition, that the external shapes and old engine cylinder blocks are still used:

* Ford Falcon
* Chevy SS
* Dodge Polara or R/T
* Torino (Argentine 70s car)

As it can be noticed, Dodge and Chevy has aerodynamic advantages over Torino and Ford, so the rules allow a couple things to help balance things.

Also I have heard that a roof top deflector have helped Fords to reduce the stall that produced a big downforce drop between 160 and 180 Kph and that disapeared at more than 180kph to regain downforce.

Yeah, Ford drivers are special dudes and not any driver can adapt to that.

Another thing that is ruled to help balance things is front suspension geometry: 3 of the 4 wishbone-chasis mountings have a "window" of arround 50mm where you can place them. The 4th is free. Damper/spring mounting is also free.



BTW, the steel disc rotors rules changed a while ago to a 5Kg minimum front and 4 Kg minimum rear after some top teams where qualifying with special 1.5Kg rotors.

Rear suspension geometry is free but it has to be a live axle with 4 links.

Check this weird damper-spring mounting point:



I guess they where looking to have a motion ratio that is different in bump than in roll. There was only 1 team I saw using with this stuff.

At the engine department, we have displacement limited to 3110cc. The ACTC (governing body) changes compression ratio for each make whenever it feels to, and they are in the 9.2 to 9.5 region.

Engines are straight-6, OHV of course, 2 per cylinder and feeded with one Weber 48 IDA carb.

They pump 380HP at arround 9500 rpm and there is a development going on to place aluminum multivalve cylinder heads and reach 450HP out from a 3 liter NA engine... with a block that was designed in the 50s!!!

With the current engines the top speeds are arround 280Kph, remember TC doesnt use oval tracks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1YEe...eature=related

Beyond "aero" rules being rather strict, there are interesting aero bits to analyze

Here I caught these guys changing the oil radiator intake (iys in the hood) and then I noticed that car had a chaneled-to the floor oil radiator exhaust:




The other cars use to have the oil rad together with the water heat exchanger, at the lower front.

Also, as the rules prohibit "closed wing profiles" at the front, some guys that need front DF uses craps like this:



Notice the cloth skirt that its allowed only at the front. The floor must be flat and cant have diffusers.

Finally, I have heard that these cars do well with more than 7° of caster. Power steering is not allowed and the cars weight 1200Kg, so the drivers that can withstand a race with a 9° caster and still be able to turn the wheel in the last lap has an advntage. TC is for "machos", the ACTC president said. I hope all the training Jose Lopez did helps him for this season

Thats all for now floks!!!

[FIRE]

Great!

[Belatti]

BTW,

to compare the speed of a TC car with a FIA GT at potrero de los funes 6.2 Km track in San Luis:

TC Pechito Lopez Torino 2:27.777
GT1 Marcel FASSLER Corvette Z06 2:13.236
GT2 Russo/Perez Companc Ferrari 430 Scuderia 2:19.066


Remember the TC cars has 370HP 3.0 liter engines with OHV, a 50s design engine block and cheap NA national tires that has nothing to do with Pirellis or Michelins.

What are the power figures for 2008 GT1 anyway?

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Belatti

What are the power figures for 2008 GT1 anyway?

Around 600 bhp

[FIRE]

Until 4 or 5 years ago each TC car had not only a driver but also a passenger...Unbelievable...

[Belatti]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Until 4 or 5 years ago each TC car had not only a driver but also a passenger...Unbelievable...

That was because TC is the oldest motor racing championship still active today, according to the Guiness book of records:



Fangio, before going to F1, was a TC Champion. At the time there where 6.000 km races covering all the continent. He for example won a Buenos Aires (Argentina) to Caracas (Venezuela) race.

The roads where most of the times dirt. TC was more like rally, but with much much longer stages. The co-driver was not only a passenger, it was a mechanic, too.

In the modern "track" era the tradition was maintained till a "passenger"
(usually sponsors or friends) was killed in an accident. They were removed for safety reasons. And weight, I believe

PS: could the mod send this off topic to the TC thread? Thanks!