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Old 14 Nov 2017, 12:34 (Ref:3780374)   #2426
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So the upshot of all of this is, Hugo Boss will no longer be a sponsor of Mercedes-AMG Petronas Motorsport but will instead become FE's 'official apparel partner'.
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 12:37 (Ref:3780375)   #2427
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I'm one of those that believe in supporting the companies that support my interests.
Me too.

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Old 14 Nov 2017, 13:54 (Ref:3780385)   #2428
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Posting that the sponsorship is staying with Mercedes but just changing racing series was a load of horse manure. And then you try to back paddle with so called "proof", that really isn't any proof to what you stated.
If you care to read what I actually posted, you'll find that I said it seems like - not that it definitely was.

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If you must rebut every post of mine (which you seem to do at every opportunity)
Inclusion of the phrase 'seem to' allows the statement to stand as something that is not factual. It may 'seem' that I recut every post - when in actual fact only a small proportion of your posts are responded to, generally with a request for either clarification or to put across an alternative position to reinforce the discussion.

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That article has no proof whatsoever stating Hugo Boss is just "transferring their sponsorship to the same brand (Mercedes)" in Formula E. Which is what you had incorrectly stated. Only that they're transferring as a series sponsor, which is what I had originally posted.
Agreed - it doesn't provide proof that Hugo Boss is transferring to Mercedes, just that Mercedes are mentioned in the article as joining FE. This makes it seem that it is just a transfer of sponsorship following the same brand.

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I posted about a 40 year sponsorship in Formula 1 ending and transferring to FE because IMO, it has significance to the direction F1 is heading in.
As others have pointed out in this thread - not everyone will recognise the significance, or even feel that it carries any significance at all. Alternative views that all form the basis for discussion.

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Maybe it had nothing to do with rule changes. Maybe it did. Was it a coincidence that Hugo Boss made this announcement not long after the future engine rules were released? Perhaps, perhaps not. That was the point for my post here - to open up the discussion.
And my initial response was merely intended to clarify if this was the right thread for the discussion. If you were offended by my questioning of the validity, then perhaps forum discussion may not be a suitable place to post?

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If you don't feel you can contribute to the discussion,
Quite confident in my ability to contribute to discussion. It is also worth bearing in mind the following guidance when engaging in the discussion:

What is the viewpoint of this writer? Does it detract from his judgement?
Is it okay to accept this as fact? Would other people agree with this point?
What evidence is this writer citing? How can the validity be assessed?
Why should I give this author any credence?












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then please save the immature comments and bullsh*t for your school friends. Have a nice day.
Is this self-deprecation? Or some self-governance to apply?

I'd probably get arrested if I tried to make friends with school children!!!
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 13:55 (Ref:3780386)   #2429
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Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
So the upshot of all of this is, Hugo Boss will no longer be a sponsor of Mercedes-AMG Petronas Motorsport but will instead become FE's 'official apparel partner'.
Yes - and the FIA are bringing in a rule change that forbids anyone in F1 wearing Hugo Boss apparel!
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 13:59 (Ref:3780388)   #2430
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Stop. Another Hugo Boss post, other off topic post or any bickering and it’s a ban. We are getting bored of all the reported posts.

It might be anyway if we can bring ourselves to review.

It’s not fair on those wanting to discuss Motorsport.
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 15:06 (Ref:3780394)   #2431
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As Adam has pointed out this thread has gone seriously off topic.

Just as a reminder it's title is "Future Rule Changes" lets keep the discussion centred around that going forward please.
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 15:24 (Ref:3780396)   #2432
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I notice Pirelli are bringing in a permanent pink compound, and if I read it correctly it will be the new 'softest'. Will this coincide with any change to allocations or requirements for compound use during the race?
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 15:42 (Ref:3780399)   #2433
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as it stands, next year the engine allotments will go down to 3 engines and if i am not mistaken some components will go down to 2.

one driver has been vocal about this recently and given that we saw him fly through the field, essentially, because he didnt have to worry about conserving his engine any more i have to agree that they are pushing the restrictions (based on cost savings) way way too far.

in fairness, how many teams even have to worry about money? rather they can and will have the money to spend if it directly translates into performance they can realize on track.

Ferrari and Merc can afford as many engines as they want, Renault as an engine manu is probably in the same boat, RB are not far behind provided Renault can build enough, STR will have Honda/manu backing, and Mclaren seem to be willing to spend money although im not sure where its coming from.

Williams and FI have tighter budgets but are most likely capable of sticking to 4 units as they did this year.

Haas maybe but Sauber for sure are just going to conserve as much as possible no matter what the allotment is so for them does it really matter if the cap is set at 3 units or 20 units for them?

so basically 60% of the grid can do without the cost saving in this area, 20% (or 30%) can go either way, and 10% (maybe 20%) have a self imposed budgetary limit.

so whats really going on with this limit? do they love penalties that much?
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 16:58 (Ref:3780409)   #2434
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I notice Pirelli are bringing in a permanent pink compound, and if I read it correctly it will be the new 'softest'. Will this coincide with any change to allocations or requirements for compound use during the race?
Autosport have this: http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/132981 and they say, Pirelli could add as many as three new compounds to the range. The vote on Twitter, so fans can decide whether it is named the 'mega-soft', 'extreme-soft' or 'hyper-soft', cracks me up.

Does F1 really need all those compounds?
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 17:12 (Ref:3780411)   #2435
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Autosport have this: http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/132981 and they say, Pirelli could add as many as three new compounds to the range. The vote on Twitter, so fans can decide whether it is named the 'mega-soft', 'extreme-soft' or 'hyper-soft', cracks me up.

Does F1 really need all those compounds?
Well this doesnt help them decide:

'A final decision will be made after McLaren drivers Stoffel Vandoorne and Lando Norris complete the last development test for next season's tyres at Interlagos next week, after Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix.'


Given the possible range of tyre options, would it make sense to mandate 2 pit-stops per race? We saw at the weekend the pace of fresh rubber late on.
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 17:47 (Ref:3780420)   #2436
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Autosport have this: http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/132981 and they say, Pirelli could add as many as three new compounds to the range. The vote on Twitter, so fans can decide whether it is named the 'mega-soft', 'extreme-soft' or 'hyper-soft', cracks me up.

Does F1 really need all those compounds?
Going by a relatively recent on-line naming vote they'll probably end up[ being called Softy McSoft-tyre!
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 18:08 (Ref:3780428)   #2437
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Going by a relatively recent on-line naming vote they'll probably end up[ being called Softy McSoft-tyre!
How about Pinky McPink-tyre?

It all gets a bit confusing when Pirelli say they want to retain the existing name/colour combinations but at intermediate compounds.

Does that mean we'll end up with Half-Ultra soft?
Or will it be a Ultper soft?
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Old 15 Nov 2017, 00:17 (Ref:3780496)   #2438
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How about Pinky McPink-tyre?

It all gets a bit confusing when Pirelli say they want to retain the existing name/colour combinations but at intermediate compounds.

Does that mean we'll end up with Half-Ultra soft?
Or will it be a Ultper soft?
Force India might like the Pinky McPink-tyre.
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Old 15 Nov 2017, 06:15 (Ref:3780519)   #2439
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Force India might like the Pinky McPink-tyre.
OT
Well they too are looking for a new name - Forcey McForce Team?

FIA haven't openly stopped them from using Force One, but it was felt to be too similar to F1 so they are going down a different route.
/OT


I'm wondering if the Liberty involvement will see a wider change in the way teams are named in future, and whether anything in the rules prevents (or encourages) this. We already have engines that are badged on the basis of sponsorship - is there any rule that prevents a team being entirely named after a main sponsor?

I get that we see Martini-Williams and Sahara Force India, but everyone still refers to them as just Williams and Force India.
Could we see the team/constructor name dropped for just Sahara racing versus Martini racing?
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Old 15 Nov 2017, 08:47 (Ref:3780526)   #2440
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OT
Well they too are looking for a new name - Forcey McForce Team?

FIA haven't openly stopped them from using Force One, but it was felt to be too similar to F1 so they are going down a different route.
/OT


I'm wondering if the Liberty involvement will see a wider change in the way teams are named in future, and whether anything in the rules prevents (or encourages) this. We already have engines that are badged on the basis of sponsorship - is there any rule that prevents a team being entirely named after a main sponsor?

I get that we see Martini-Williams and Sahara Force India, but everyone still refers to them as just Williams and Force India.
Could we see the team/constructor name dropped for just Sahara racing versus Martini racing?
You change your name you lose your previous season's points revenue.
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Old 15 Nov 2017, 09:08 (Ref:3780531)   #2441
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Old 15 Nov 2017, 09:47 (Ref:3780535)   #2442
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We have enough compounds, we don't need to over complicate it by bringing in more. Just add another tyre manufacturer to spice it up
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Old 15 Nov 2017, 12:59 (Ref:3780555)   #2443
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Regarding the potential changes to engines and the need for an independent supplier - why doesn't FOM finance the design of the independent engine? FOM could get Ilmor or Cosworth to design and build the engine - so much like BTCC where there is the TOCA engine F1 would have the FOM engine which would be available to any team that wants it (or can't get a manufacturer to supply them).
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Old 15 Nov 2017, 14:53 (Ref:3780569)   #2444
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We have enough compounds, we don't need to over complicate it by bringing in more. Just add another tyre manufacturer to spice it up
I keep saying it but if F1 can find away to over complicate things, they will.
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Old 15 Nov 2017, 16:09 (Ref:3780578)   #2445
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If this new engine rule is just gonna lead to more grid penalties, what’s the point?
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Old 15 Nov 2017, 16:10 (Ref:3780579)   #2446
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I keep saying it but if F1 can find away to over complicate things, they will.


Yep, they never go for the simple solution, which does exist
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Old 15 Nov 2017, 16:36 (Ref:3780587)   #2447
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as for the new softer compounds...im a fan to be honest.

i like how the hards were basically unused and ultimately shelved this year and even their mediums i thought were far too durable.

so i like the idea of an even softer/less durable option...just dont know how that is going to play out with the slightly heavier cars next year!
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Old 15 Nov 2017, 16:39 (Ref:3780589)   #2448
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If this new engine rule is just gonna lead to more grid penalties, what’s the point?
sadly, i can see no reason other then they like penalties!

but putting my tin foil hat on

could the 3 engine allotment be a move/negotiation tactic to hamper competition to the point where a team like Ferrari has no choice but to either give up their special payments in return for the quid pro quo of being allowed to use their engines as they see fit?
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Old 15 Nov 2017, 17:12 (Ref:3780590)   #2449
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Gary Anderson is advocating going to 5 engines plus a 'force majeure' sixth engine (and gearbox) that can be used if the engine and/or gearbox is damaged in an incident that is not the teams or drivers fault - e.g the driver is hit from the rear and it damages the gearbox. He also makes the very valid point that limting engines doesn't actually save any money or in fact engines, as the manufacturers simply build more of them to test to destruction on the dyno to get reliability for the four engines to use during the season!

Back in his day he remarks that a top team would get through 60 engines in a season (with less races). I remember back in the Brabham BMW turbo days that they would have an engine for qualifying and then it was quite often finished and if it didn't blow up at some point wasn't poweful enough!They got through engines like tissues back in those days and thought nothing of it..
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Old 15 Nov 2017, 17:17 (Ref:3780591)   #2450
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
as for the new softer compounds...im a fan to be honest.

i like how the hards were basically unused and ultimately shelved this year and even their mediums i thought were far too durable.

so i like the idea of an even softer/less durable option...just dont know how that is going to play out with the slightly heavier cars next year!
i was reading the pirelli thread the other night and remembering how much of a slating they got for crappy compounds. they've now got a full range of options for a range of surfaces, layouts and cars.

i wonder how workable it'd be to allow the teams to order their own compounds based on the same timescales allowed by pirelli. they could issue guidelines of what would suit and let the teams choose. in terms or logistics it'd be doable, but how would it affect strategies?
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