[DTM] Race 6 - Zandvoort (NED), 13 July 2008

[helgi]

DTM became an autosport show. Maybe I don't understand the idea of racing,but I prefer that show on ARD rather than 15-minutes races with real cars that my grandfather usually drive to supermarket.

[redshoes]

Top rant Jimmy.

DTM hasn't been about racing for some years now, it's first and foremost about entertainment and selling cars. The big V8s monsters with all their carbon-fibre and winglets look and sound impressive but don't make for great racing. It's hard enough to overtake as it is and then you realise that the lower half of the field are really there to slow down the front runners from the other side.

Think of it as the automotive equivalent of WWF. Loud, brash, lots of muscles, a hyped-up audience, and a nagging doubt that maybe the result isn't quite on the level.

[werner]

Originally Posted by FIRE

How was the Porsche RS Spyder, Audi R10 en Toyota NASCAR demo?

Albers and Speed in the Audi and the Nascar where touring around a bit, showing the car to the audience. The Nascar offcourse couldn't stay near the LMP's, and got lapped after a few laps. No wonder offcourse, a Nascar at Zandvoort is a bit like a Sumowrestler running a marathon.
Verstappen however had taken something, because intead of touring around a bit behind the Audi, he really started to race agianst Albers. When he had passed him, he went on for a few laps like he was qualifieing for a race. Great to watch. Especially when you know that Verstappen isn't really Albers best friend, and when the Audi was passed in front of a lot of Audi-officials, who probably had arranged that the Audi would be running in front of the Porche . After that Verstappen did a few donuts, and than surprisingly calm did an interview inwich he didn't say anything more interesting than that he liked to be in Zandvoort.
Albers was away quikly to prepare for his race. Apparantly the demo distracted him to much...

[Go_For_Pole]

Ralf had a good race? Is beating Stoddart, Lauda and Engel the definition of a good race? If so, it is no wonder that Merc selected their 07 crew like the way they did.

Anyway, the race was the worst thing I have seen all year but I think blaming the cars is only half true. One factor is the circuit but I think the most important was that Audi and Merc was so far away performance-wise that the two factory quartets didn't get to mix at all. This can always happen in motorsport, you can only minimize this chance by having more discreet squads in terms of equipment (ie more factory teams).

[gomick]

Great weekend for Mattias Ekstrom & Audi - Hope they (Audi) win the title .... Is there any chance of a 3rd manufacturer joining the DTM in the future

[werner]

Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole

Ralf had a good race? Is beating Stoddart, Lauda and Engel the definition of a good race?

Well, When compared to losing from his wife driving a Mini Cooper, yes, beating those 3 drivers is a good race .
On a more serious note, we all know overtaking is quite hard in a DTM-car, and he did it to 4 or 5 drivers (the 3 mentioned, and Legge and maybe Albers, was he in front or behind Albers when he crashed?) And from the 5 drivers, 3 are men!

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by redshoes

...big V8s monsters with all their carbon-fibre and winglets look and sound impressive but don't make for great racing...

Think of it as the automotive equivalent of WWF. Loud, brash, lots of muscles, a hyped-up audience, and a nagging doubt that maybe the result isn't quite on the level.

My sentiments exactly! I was thinking of heading to Brands for the DTM race but I've decided to go on the Saturday only, just to see the cars for a bit and that would be it.

I don't mind watching just one of those highly strung cars attacking kerbs and wriggling all over the place because they sound good and they look interesting but spending time to watch a race with 18 or so of those things somehow doesn't appeal.

Having said all that, Brands will probably turn out to be the best race of the season!

I still have some recordings of some of the early races (relatively speaking) of the new DTM. Uwe Alzen and Manuel Reuter in the Opels going at it hammer and tongs and that was just between themselves!

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole

Ralf had a good race? Is beating Stoddart, Lauda and Engel the definition of a good race?

Well, if you start from 19th and end up 12th with only 1 single person (in 11th, starting from 13) in front of you in an equally crappy car, then you did the very best that could be expected. The 07 Merc is a dog, and nothing Ralf does can change that.

Originally Posted by werner

was he in front or behind Albers when he crashed?)

Ralf was just closing up from behind on Alberts when he deceided to park it and enjoy the nice weather

[FIRE]

The reason Albers parked his car was because he needed a "pitstop":


Source: www.autosport.nl

[stedevil]

Sometimes a picture sais more than a thousand words

[Go_For_Pole]

Originally Posted by stedevil

Well, if you start from 19th and end up 12th with only 1 single person (in 11th, starting from 13) in front of you in an equally crappy car, then you did the very best that could be expected.

That single person (Paffett) is the only valid yardstick for Ralf. Beating Lauda, Engel and Stoddart or benefiting from the retirements of some other drivers means absolutely nothing for a much hyped ex F1 driver. When he will (or rather if he ever) manage to beat Gary like Margaritis and La Rosa did on occasion last year, he will have done "the best expected".

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole

When he will (or rather if he ever) manage to beat Gary like Margaritis and La Rosa did on occasion last year, he will have done "the best expected".

You mean like he already did in Oberschleben, in only his 2nd DTM race ever?

I'm not saying Ralf is a huge shining star, but he is also not the utter untalanted crap many seem to belive.

The overhyping is for marketing/selling tickets to the German crowds and he is not doing worse than most other drivers hireed mostly for that reason in the past. In fact he is performing on par or better than many of them.

[werner]

I still think his broher, when asked by FIAT to lead an Alfa Romeo team, would be champion in 2 years time.

[Go_For_Pole]

This last bit is irrelevant, I never compared his achievements with those of HHF, Mika and Alesi. Even then he is doing worse than those bar HHF. But anyway, if you like watching the epic battles of the Mercedes 07 crew and Legge, good for you.

[stedevil]

I completely understand your view of the pointlessness of fielding 1-2 year old cars with partially quite mediocre drivers just to fill up the numbers. I do hope we see changes for 2010 that allows a full grid of competitive cars where eg privatéers can compete on merit.