What is holding Williams back ?

[darcym]

I'm wondering what people feel is currently holding Williams F1 back from returning to the front end of the grid, is it just pure cash (or restrictions limited by lack of cash).

Williams is still run by the same two guys with the same approach, they are still inovating (fly wheel kers ( will they run this ?) )

Are they still designing a good car ? there was lots of debate in the BMW years that the car was failing and being pushed along by the super engine, I genuinly don't know.

Have times changed and the approach of the people running the team now been left behind and won't allow for sucess.

In my eyes there are a number of short falls engine (budget limitation?) pay drivers (he could be a solid driver and it's not a problem) they are still pushing out new ideas and going their own ways, is it just cash that's the issue ?

[ASCII Man]

I'd say one of the main reasons for their lack of success is the lack of a top engineer, like Adrian Newey.

Also the lack of a top engine would be a considerable factor.
I don't really rate the Cossie as a top engine.

[JeremySmith]

I think it is several things..

Lack of enough money compared to the other top teams to get the job done. Too many engine supply changes over the years.. Way to many driver changes,Nico Hülkenberg should still be in that car IMHO, and as has pointed out a top engineer..

[Marbot]

The Cossie engine would have probably done a better job in the Red Bull car than the Renault engine did. So it's not that. They have some of the best engineering talent in F1, hence the tiny gearbox and possible future use of flywheel KERS. What they don't have, and ironically is the exact one they used to have when they were successful, is an aerodynamicist of Newey's calibre. Aero is still king when it comes to F1 car performance.

[Adam43]

You're probably on the right lines with the designer. However the Cossie engine may not have been better in the Red Bull; the Renault plays to Newey's strengths as I bet it has better cooling characteristics than the Cossie.

[Marbot]

Yes, it's possible that the Renault engine is more....aerodynamic?????!!!!! Possibly in a similar way to the Williams gearbox being more aerodynamic.

[strider]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I think it is several things..

Lack of enough money compared to the other top teams to get the job done. Too many engine supply changes over the years.. Way to many driver changes,Nico Hülkenberg should still be in that car IMHO, and as has pointed out a top engineer..

All correct, although I must rate Barrichello higher than you do. But I certainly agree about Hulkenberg.

darcym my is certainly wide of the mark in saying that: "Williams is still run by the same two guys with the same approach." Patrick Head is on the point of retirement and Frank Williams of necessity is taking a back seat these days. It's the Adam Parr and Sam Michael team now, but hopefully imbued with the spirit of its founders.

In fact, I'm quite hopeful that Williams may have taken a step forward this year. That gear box is tiny and if it works and brings with it the advantages it should... Well' lets wait and see.

[JeremySmith]

Sorry Strider I really rate Rubens mate I think he is still a great driver indeed and a super person to have leading a team..

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Yes, it's possible that the Renault engine is more....aerodynamic?????!!!!! Possibly in a similar way to the Williams gearbox being more aerodynamic.

I can't tell if you are being sarcy or daft. If the Renault engine needs less cooling the bodywork can be more 'aerodynamic'. Although I'm guessing you got my point.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I can't tell if you are being sarcy or daft. If the Renault engine needs less cooling the bodywork can be more 'aerodynamic'. Although I'm guessing you got my point.

Yes, I got your point. Less cooling, therefore smaller intakes, less drag.....

[wnut]

The main problem with Williams is they are greedy and mean. They consistently fail to recognise the contributions made by their key staff and consequently let far too many people go. It is impossible to maintain a competitive edge when you kick out the key people. Winning a WDC for Williams seems to be a ticket to seek your employment elsewhere.
Mansell, Prost, Hill, Villeneuve, Webber - we did not realise how good he was, Hulkenburg? Newey - his departure won't make a difference, etc.etc.

[SennaTheGreat]

prost retired wnut he wasnt pushed out. plus prost had a clause in his contract of "no senna or mansell as team mates" prost won his 4th world title and decided to call it a day while on top plus williams were (making noises) about having senna in their car.

[ASCII Man]

Actually, Williams were very keen to retain the services of Villeneuve beyond 1998.
Also, Prost didn't want to be teammates with Senna after what happened at McLaren, IIRC.

I do agree about Williams shooting themselves in the foot with the departures of Hill, Mansell and Newey, though.

[JeremySmith]

I think that Williams over the years have shot themselves in the foot though several times...

It is like getting married every other week, what do expect the outcome to be?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I think it is several things..

Lack of enough money compared to the other top teams to get the job done. Too many engine supply changes over the years.. Way to many driver changes,Nico Hülkenberg should still be in that car IMHO, and as has pointed out a top engineer..

We know the reason for no Hulkenberg. The team lost 40 million Euros in sponsorship this year..... and Maldonado / PDVSA is said to have replaced 33 million of that.

[strider]

Let's change the tone a bit. I don't know why people have to be so negative all the time.

[stripedcat]

I hope that Williams can make a return to a winning team. Before 1998 they had a race to win ratio that made both Mclaren and Ferrari very envious of.

Some of it is down to losing Newey no doubt. They did manage to produce a winning car without him though, from 2001 to 2005.

[nobster]

Williams deserve to have good results, this car looks good and the team seem confident that they will deliver some good results this year. Let's hope luck will come their way this year.

[Oran Park Forever]

Yeah they're trying the (Lotus) Renault trick.........fitting a retro ciggie colour scheme to remind them of the good times.

With so many middle east races now, maybe they should hit Saudia up for some more cash.....it worked wonders for them in the early 80s!
Maybe not a good idea to ask the Bin Laden family again tho!!!!

[The Snout]

When you talk about Ferrari or McLaren you think of the race team but also their interests outside of F1. Williams have 30-40 years of experience yet they seem to be still just a race team.

I think if they had evolved more outside the race team they might have had more corporate and technical bite to in turn help the race team more.

[Dixie Flatline]

Originally Posted by Oran Park Forever

Yeah they're trying the (Lotus) Renault trick.........fitting a retro ciggie colour scheme to remind them of the good times.

With so many middle east races now, maybe they should hit Saudia up for some more cash.....it worked wonders for them in the early 80s!
Maybe not a good idea to ask the Bin Laden family again tho!!!!

Williams Grand Prix was floated on the German stock exchange. It closed down on its first day as a publicly traded company.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...-1226015120837

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Dixie Flatline

Williams Grand Prix was floated on the German stock exchange. It closed down on its first day as a publicly traded company.

Closed down? That's a bit sudden, I thought they were looking OK for 2011.

Oh, you mean "share price was down at the close of trading". Silly me

I'd give it a few months. Trading day 1 is never a good indicator of form.

[Knowlesy]

The main problem for Williams is money I feel, which ties in with no manufacturer backing.

I am not sure how much I rate Sam Michael either, but that said I think they do alright on their budget.

[OZ_HCR32]

I think their Toyota years really hurt the team. Having a guy like Rosberg in only his second season alongside Nakajima ... i think they simply lost their way as they lacked experience engineering heads and experienced drivers. In teh days of no testing....never going to be a great combination come race weekends.

Money obviously is tight, but feel with someone like Rubens on board at least development and engineering will be led from the drivers seat.

But, an extra 50million and Honda or Porsche-Audi engined would help. The series really needs another engine manufacturer in my eyes.

[Marbot]

What did Red Bull finish trading at ?

It can't be good for any of the more established teams that they keep getting beaten by what is essentially a soft drinks manufacturer.