[Driver] Who is now the best driver in F1?

[hannabyjj]

This season lewis has really shown his class and I feel he was the fastest and maybe bar alonso the most consistent. He carried on fighting even though his team badly let him down.

[formerf1champ]

Hello newbie. Definitely an argument can be made for Hamilton to be considered the best driver atm. However, it's unreasonable to say he defintely is, with the performances Alonso's produced the last three seasons. If we we're to dig deeper and say that Hamilton has some specific qualities that are better than everyone else, I would not dispute that he has.

Overall, he was excellent this season, and was stiff to miss out on some wins. I'm can't say it would've defintely cost him the title. Vettel and Alonso were so close on points, that Hamilton may've still only have ended up 3rd anyway. I would not dispute that he was the second best driver this season, behind Alonso. because I think he got a bit more out of himself than Vettel.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with F1 history. While he was stiff with the mechanical problems this season, I do not have huge sympathy for him, since mechanical problems are a part of motor racing, and that Hamilton is not the first driver to have encountered such a season. I can recall the '91 season, when Nigel Mansell ended up second, the equivalent on 60pts behind Senna, but suffered more as a result of non-driving errors than what Hamilton did, this year. Heck, even in his emphatic '92 season, he suffered more than what Hamilton did this year. I also recall a season, where Heinz-Harald Frentzen, who finished 3rd in the points, 4th had Schumacher not broke his leg, had a massive claim to be the best driver that year.*

But anyway, I think for the rest of his career, considering who he's up against, Hamilton will always be considered one of the best drivers, but not necessarily will always the best. Hamilton was great, probably his best season since his first. (The year he won the title, he wasn't that good, that was a terrible year from everyone, except Kubica)





*Anticipating backlash about Mansell and Frentzen.

[peckstar]

highly doubtful

he's only finished top 3 in the championship twice, and a cloud hangs over those positions

I'm doubtful he is even better than his team mate

[Born Racer]

It's impossible to say, but I think he's done enough this year to put himself well back in the running for that position. Let's see - Alonso (who also had a great season) had to beat Massa, an inferior driver to Button (in my opinion - so that's another debate right there), therefore the gap to his team-mate was easier for him to achieve. Lewis did everything right this year. In fact, I think the only debatable error was not being more careful with Maldonado in Valencia, but I think this crash was Maldonado's fault.

Hamilton was surpreme this year. peckstar, I'm amazed you can doubt he's better than Button. Go on - give us some good reasons.

Originally Posted by peckstar

the championship

Meh.

Originally Posted by peckstar

a cloud hangs over those positions

You should elaborate on that accusation.

[chunder]

Errr, in answer to the original question!! Definitive NO!

He makes too many mistakes and is too inconsistent with his form. And I am not sure he can carry a car or develop one!

I would put Seb, Fernando and maybe even Jenson in front of him to be honest.

Sheer speed Lewis is right there, but right now you need a little more than just speed, unless you drive a REd Bull

[Born Racer]

You say right now chunder, but in 2012 he was fairly flawless. He wasn't inconsistent at all. And apart from his catalogue of errors in 2011, he's always been a driver who you can rely to get everything out of the car in every Grand Prix, unlike the aforementioned Jenson Button.

Originally Posted by chunder

And I am not sure he can carry a car or develop one!

The car development chestnut - he's not an engineer, so that's not his job. And using that logic, I guess that makes Alonso a poor car developer since we saw he didn't exactly make the Ferrari move forward this year.

So Vettel is the best car developer, because he got the Red Bull flying in the latter part of the season.

[Knowlesy]

Drivers do little development nowadays. There is a testing ban.

I have always had Alonso and Hamilton as my top drivers in F1 since 2007 and nothing has changed that. Had Hamilton followed up 2011 with a similar performance I would have had to revise my opinion but he delivered a season of flawless, mesmerising beauty just as solid as Alonso.

[Born Racer]

I think it's difficult to say with any conviction that much separates Hamilton and Alonso.

But then opinions are like arse holes. Everyone has one and some are bigger and stinkier than others.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Hamilton was surpreme this year. peckstar, I'm amazed you can doubt he's better than Button. Go on - give us some good reasons.


You should elaborate on that accusation.

He beat Button by two points in 2012, he got well beaten by Button in 2011. thats hardly supreme

Its not an accusation, the team was disqualified from the teams championship in 2007 for espionage, thus the cloud

[Knowlesy]

He did only beat Button by two points this year, but he also lost a hundred more points than Jenson with reliability issues.

If you actually watch and analyse what is happening on track rather than staring at a points figure you will see that 2012 was no contest at McLaren I am afraid.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

He did only beat Button by two points this year, but he also lost a hundred more points than Jenson with reliability issues.

If you actually watch and analyse what is happening on track rather than staring at a points figure you will see that 2012 was no contest at McLaren I am afraid.

The points tell the story, the mind plays the tricks

one drivers wins it or bins it, one is consistant

besides seb leaves him for dead, if he was a pom there wouldnt be a question about it

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by peckstar

He beat Button by two points in 2012, he got well beaten by Button in 2011. thats hardly supreme

Championship points. Ah, I see. I was hoping you had a point.

You mentioned 2007 and the rather grandiose term espionage (images of Hamilton at Maranello with a pair of binoculars spring to mind), but what about the other one you mentioned? You said a cloud hung over another season.

Originally Posted by peckstar

besides seb leaves him for dead, if he was a pom there wouldnt be a question about it

Let's try to leave accusations of national bias out of it before this thread becomes more futile than it already feels. It makes as much sense as 'If a butterfly had flapped its wings and caused an earthquake, Webber's auntie could have had Italian balls, been his Uncle Flavio, and Webber gone to Renault (only to still be as undebatedly inferior to those world citizens Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso).

[chunder]

To be honest calling a driver flawess and mesmerising is high praise Knowles!

I would say Lewis is far from those things!! He makes a lot of errors, but so do most drivers apart from Fernando who makes fewer than most.

Lewis is not what I would call a thinking driver, he seems to rely on the teams advise far too much and I hope when he drives for Merc he manages to lose this trait and be more independent.

I cant imagine many of the modern drivers managing in the older times, but Jenson and Fernando are two, as they can thnk for themselves and be confident enough to demand things.

A lot of modern drivers are products of an energy drink or manufacturer.

One who should clearly be there in 2013 but staggeringly isnt is Kobayashi! Quite how the best overtaker in F1 isnt on a grid I dont know!

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by chunder

I would say Lewis is far from those things!! He makes a lot of errors, but so do most drivers apart from Fernando who makes fewer than most.

Except that Fernando made more errors than Lewis this year.

As people are debating the all-round driver thing and questioning Lewis on this, I would also call into question Fernando's ability to cope with things not going his way or pressure. We saw in 2007 two very evenly-matched drivers (I think Lewis got on the pace very quickly; I doubt he's got much quicker since then), but when Fernando didn't get his way, he didn't turn in much better performances. So they seem very evenly matched.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by chunder

To be honest calling a driver flawess and mesmerising is high praise Knowles!

I would say Lewis is far from those things!! He makes a lot of errors, but so do most drivers apart from Fernando who makes fewer than most.

Lewis is not what I would call a thinking driver, he seems to rely on the teams advise far too much and I hope when he drives for Merc he manages to lose this trait and be more independent.

I cant imagine many of the modern drivers managing in the older times, but Jenson and Fernando are two, as they can thnk for themselves and be confident enough to demand things.

A lot of modern drivers are products of an energy drink or manufacturer.

One who should clearly be there in 2013 but staggeringly isnt is Kobayashi! Quite how the best overtaker in F1 isnt on a grid I dont know!

I said his 2012 was more or less those things. He isn't a flawless driver, nobody is, but to deny his 2012 campaign was anything less than well delivered is a bit simple really.

Is that last paragraph some kind of wind up attempt?

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by hannabyjj

He carried on fighting even though his team badly let him down.

Indeed he did, although this is his job. And no 'I' in team and all that.

But importantly he didn't let his head drop in such a way that it made him make rash moves or anything. This is similar to Alonso who has learnt to put on a brave face and leave the conspiracy theories at the (broken) door.

[Adam43]

Another thread has just been derailed because of *****ing about whether a post is xenophobic or not. Xenophobia is not welcome here on 10-10ths. Neither is trying to discredit someone else's opinion by accusations of xenophobia. It smacks of xenophobia itself sometimes!

Stop it and let's talk Motorsport.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Its not an accusation, the team was disqualified from the teams championship in 2007 for espionage, thus the cloud

And one of the prime movers in that espionage was ......

Well, it wasn't Hamilton. It was the same driver who was intended to benefit from Crashgate.

[Born Racer]

Bear in mind Lewis has much less experience than Fernando, so he's doing very well to be at or above his level.

[hannabyjj]

Originally Posted by peckstar

He beat Button by two points in 2012, he got well beaten by Button in 2011. thats hardly supreme

Its not an accusation, the team was disqualified from the teams championship in 2007 for espionage, thus the cloud

Are you serious he annihilated Button this year. If his car can't reach the end of the Grand Prix there is nothing he can do he was outqualified by button three times germany spa and Japan and even then he had issues at both spa and Japan. Hamilton got 7 (8) poles compared to Buttons paltry one.
He got more wins despite being robbed of 4.

[Born Racer]

I think Button does a top job with his ability. As mentioned previously, he's good at using his noggin and thinking on his feet, but ultimately if you had a rebellious car handling on a given weekend, who would you fret less about to extract the max from it - Lewis or Jenson? (It's not a rhetorical question, because you are all free to say what you think, but my answer is fairly obvious).

[chillibowl]

I rate hammy over button so this is a hard question Born Racer.

Tobe honest, my first reaction is if both drivers had a less than perfect car (and i will add to that even a car that might be long on engine life or gearbox etc) I would expect JB to bring the car to the finish line and that would be extracting the maximum. In other words I would expect LH to be faster but only cover a shorter distance.

that said I have more respect for the all or nothing approach...which ironically is more in keeping with how Mclaren title challenges usually seem to have gone over the last 10-15 years.

[Spritle]

If Lewis can take the dog he will be driving in 2013 and exceed expectations and annihilate Nico than a case could be made.

Until such time I will continue to rate him above most, hardly above all but with the same "it's the car" qualifier lodged against Schumacher at Ferrari and Vettel at Red Bull.

[Born Racer]

What about Alonso, Spritle, relative to Lewis, re the 'the car' thing?

Lewis started at a high level. When Alonso was a few years into F1, he was being beaten by Jarno Trulli. When Hamilton arrived in F1, he was almost the equal of Fernando Alonso.

[kartincolin]

This all depends on what criteria you have for the best driver in F1 actually means, the fastest is not always the best. The vast majority of F1 pundits acknowledge that there are 3 standout drivers in F1 at the moment: Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton. Each come with their own pros and cons. Vettel is arguably the best at stringing together a pole lap, and has the best conversion rate to back this belief up. Some also believe that his ability to lead from the front is superior to that of anybody else on the grid. Hamilton is arguably the driver in F1 with the most natural raw speed. He also doesn`t seem too sensitive to set-up changes and is also arguably the best overtaker in F1 at the moment, after Grosjean :P. Alonso has been hailed by many as the best in F1, but this is down to his ability to extract the maximum from relatively poor machinery, his fighting spirit and his racecraft.

Like I said, it`s all about perception.