[Official] Hungarian Grand Prix 2020: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 3

[Adam43]

Thanks all on that detail and consideration.

[chavez]

Who insured that Max's car was returned to parc ferme settings after the front end was re-built?

Is anything they had to replace covered by the parc ferme rules?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by chavez

Who insured that Max's car was returned to parc ferme settings after the front end was re-built?

Is anything they had to replace covered by the parc ferme rules?

Aren't they allowed to replace any damaged parts under parc ferme regs

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by E.B

Aren't they allowed to replace any damaged parts under parc ferme regs

They are.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

They are.

Yeah badly worded. Aren't wasnt the best choice of words to start my post. What you said is what I meant (They are)

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by E.B

Yeah badly worded. Aren't wasnt the best choice of words to start my post. What you said is what I meant (They are)

Oh, I read it as you asking a question! "Aren't they allowed to do this?" and I was trying to reply "Yes, they are, you're right"

But yes, you're right You can repair damage in parc ferme.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chavez

Who insured that Max's car was returned to parc ferme settings after the front end was re-built?

Is anything they had to replace covered by the parc ferme rules?

In short - the stewards will be the ones who ensured that parc ferme conditions were adhered to.

Everything was permitted - unless you are suggesting that the whole paddock were not aware the changes were being made?

'Teams are permitted to complete repairs on the car under parc ferme conditions, but must replace all parts with those of the same specification.'

IF you are interested in seeing the repairs in full - the official website has posted a 20 minute video of the activity. See if you can spot what settings they changed that would breach parc ferme conditions

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

In short - the stewards will be the ones who ensured that parc ferme conditions were adhered to.

Everything was permitted - unless you are suggesting that the whole paddock were not aware the changes were being made?

'Teams are permitted to complete repairs on the car under parc ferme conditions, but must replace all parts with those of the same specification.'

IF you are interested in seeing the repairs in full - the official website has posted a 20 minute video of the activity. See if you can spot what settings they changed that would breach parc ferme conditions

There was nothing wrong with what RBR did. They quite rightly are allowed to make repairs to their car in those situations. It was a great job they did getting it ready for the race. Nothing was changed settings wise from what I could see

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

There was nothing wrong with what RBR did. They quite rightly are allowed to make repairs to their car in those situations. It was a great job they did getting it ready for the race. Nothing was changed settings wise from what I could see

Absolutely, otherwise they wouldn't have been allowed to do so in the first place.

[steve nielsen]

Max got a present from the mechanics after the race

https://twitter.com/redbullracing/st...78097309569024

[wnut]

Shows an incredible level of preparation that the RBR mechanics had the parts ready and adjusted to just slap on and go racing.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

Max got a present from the mechanics after the race

https://twitter.com/redbullracing/st...78097309569024

Other than the obvious appreciation he had for the extra effort by the mechanics and the embarrassment of the entire thing. It was interesting to see the custom travel cases the trophy (very end of video on twitter). I assume those are provided behind the scenes to the winners?

Richard

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by wnut

Shows an incredible level of preparation that the RBR mechanics had the parts ready and adjusted to just slap on and go racing.

I think it's the standard preparation of all the front-running teams to have parts ready to put on the car in the event of damage.

I'd be more surprised if they didn't have parts ready. Once the car is set up for Q, then the team know all of the settings and can prepare the spares appropriately. The impressive part (IMO) is the speed with which the work was completed.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chavez

Who insured that Max's car was returned to parc ferme settings after the front end was re-built?

Is anything they had to replace covered by the parc ferme rules?

Two questions here.

1. How did they ensure settings were not changed? I think there are FIA officials in the garages and on the grid watching what teams do. If you watch the F1 provided video of the work, you should also note each car for all the teams have a swarm of people working on them. Who is to say they are all not making setting changes? I think we just have to trust the observers know what to look for.

2. Are they allows to change these items? As mentioned in other posts above, that should not be a problem for "like for like" swaps. The question I have is if they have to get approval first, or do they just do the work and then present details to officials during/after done. I do suspect they are expected to document what was done and why. And as mentioned above, officials are observing work to the cars.

Richard

[chillibowl]

When are parc ferme rules lifted?

I thought it was once they took to their grid spot at which time they could make changes. Or if they have to make changes in their garage they have to start from pit lane.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

When are parc ferme rules lifted?

I thought it was once they took to their grid spot at which time they could make changes. Or if they have to make changes in their garage they have to start from pit lane.

From the Sporting Regulations:

Every team must provide the FIA technical delegate with a suspension set-up sheet for both of their cars before each of them leaves the pit lane for the first time during qualifying practice session.
34.2 Each car will be deemed to be in parc fermé from the time at which it leaves the pit lane for the first time during qualifying practice until the start of the race.

Between these times, [...] the following work may be carried out:
u) Repair of genuine accident damage

It also states:

However, if a team wishes to change a part during the qualifying session, between reconnaissance laps and/or on the grid before the start of the race, this may be done without first seeking the permission of the technical delegate, provided it is reasonable for the relevant team to believe permission would be given if there was time to ask and the broken or damaged part remains in full view of the scrutineer assigned to the car at all times.

And yes - the start of the race is clarified as being when all red lights are extinguished, after the one second light is illuminated....

[chillibowl]

I thought it was (or used to be) 30 mins before the race...so basically when they left their garage.

Otherwise, why all the buzz of activity during the grid walk period?

Is that all just for tire blankets?

[chillibowl]

Side note... is there a limit on mechanics because of covid? I assumed thats why lando has been shown lending an extra pair of hands...well that and he is the new cool.

Did RB get this job done with fewer hands?

If so additionally impressive.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Otherwise, why all the buzz of activity during the grid walk period?

Is that all just for tire blankets?

The full list of what is still permissible under Parc Ferme is below. Looking through the list, I can see why a lot of teams would carry out that work just to be safe (belts and braces):


a) Engines may be started.
b) Fuel may be added or removed and a fuel breather fitted.
c) Wheels, wheel fasteners and tyres may be removed, changed or rebalanced and tyre pressures checked.
d) Spark plugs may be removed in order to carry out an internal engine inspection and cylinder compression checks.
e) Permitted heating or cooling devices may be fitted.
f) A jump battery may be connected and on board electrical units may be freely accessed via a physical connection to the car.
g) Charging and / or discharging of the ERS energy storage devices.
h) The brake system may be bled.
i) Engine oil may be drained.
j) Compressed gases may be drained or added.
k) Fluids may be drained and/or replenished, however, fluids used for replenishment must conform to the same specification as the original fluid.
l) The aerodynamic set up of the front wing may be adjusted using the existing parts. No parts may be added, removed or replaced.
m) If the FIA technical delegate is satisfied that changes in climatic conditions necessitate alterations to the specification of a car, changes may be made to the air ducts around the front and rear brakes and radiator ducts. These changes may be made at any time after all teams have been sent the message “CHANGE IN CLIMATIC CONDITIONS” via the official messaging system. From this point onwards the choice of air ducts around the front and
rear brakes and radiator ducts is free and pitot tubes may be covered or uncovered, subject always to compliance with the relevant Technical Regulations.
n) Bodywork (excluding radiators) may be removed and/or cleaned.
o) Cosmetic changes may be made to the bodywork and tape may be added.
p) Any part of the car may be cleaned.
q) On board cameras, marshalling system components, timing transponders and any associated equipment may be removed, refitted or checked.
r) Any work required by the FIA technical delegate.
s) Changes to improve the driver's comfort. In this context anything other than the adjustment of mirrors, seat belts and pedals may only be carried out with the specific permission of the FIA technical delegate.
Should ambient temperature change significantly, teams will be requested to change the head padding required by Article 14.6.1-6 of the Technical Regulations via the official messaging system.
The addition or removal of padding (or similar material) is also permitted but may only be carried out under supervision and, if required by the FIA technical delegate, must be removed before the post-race weighing procedure.
t) Drinking fluid for the driver may be added at any time, however, the capacity of the container for any such fluid must not exceed 1.5 litres.
u) Repair of genuine accident damage.
v) Any parts which are removed from the car in order to carry out any work specifically permitted above, or any parts removed to carry out essential safety checks, must remain close to it and, at all times, be visible to the scrutineer assigned to the relevant car.
Furthermore, any parts removed from the car in order to carry out any such work must be refitted before the car leaves the pit lane.

[chillibowl]

i hope you didnt have to type all that out as i was just being a bit cheeky with the tire blankets comment.

i have been watching for like 30 years and still learning about the sport. in fairness to me though, the rules are pretty wonky!

anyways, u) repair of genuine accident damage is allowed which RB clearly had.

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

c) Wheels, wheel fasteners and tyres may be removed, changed or rebalanced and tyre pressures checked.

how does this one affect the Haas decision to change tires?

i guess that would fall under that other rule mentioned earlier in the thread?

thinking about it the other way...if a team qualifies in the wet and the race day is clearly dry, i would imagine the team would just fit on slicks without ever bothering to ask the driver.

but i recon giving every driver a +10s penalty is the same as giving no one a penalty.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

From the Sporting Regulations:

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The full list of what is still permissible under Parc Ferme is below.

Thanks! Two very informative posts.

I was curious about the need for advance permission or not and its interesting to see what can be done on under Parc Ferme.

Richard

[S griffin]

The rules are clear to me too. It’s obvious that repairs can be made, otherwise you have a safety issue. A pretty good reason to have leeway in the Parc Ferme regs

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

how does this one affect the Haas decision to change tires?

i guess that would fall under that other rule mentioned earlier in the thread?

My guess yes. Especially with respect to outcome of qualifying and impact on the tire you will start the race one. I expect that "wheel" and "tire" would be two different things from a regulation perspective. Swapping out a "wheel", might be ok, but not a "tire".

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

I'm intrigued by rule t): t) Drinking fluid for the driver may be added at any time, however, the capacity of the container for any such fluid must not exceed 1.5 litres. What happens if it's a over by milliliter, DSQ?

[Greem]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I'm intrigued by rule t): t) Drinking fluid for the driver may be added at any time, however, the capacity of the container for any such fluid must not exceed 1.5 litres. What happens if it's a over by milliliter, DSQ?

How do you get it to hold more than its capacity, Mr Feynman?