Elfin MR5 - F5000s

Bryan Miller · 28 Jul 2003, 08:14 (Ref:673037)

Allen.
I felt it may be better to start a new thread to deal with these cars. There are only 4 off ,so we should't get into too much trouble.???
MR5-5711 , John McCormack
MR5-5722 , Max Stewart
MR5-5723 , Gary Cooper
MR5-5724 , John Walker.

Ist. note the John Blanden/ Barry Catford Elfin book calls them out as 5711/5712/5713/5714.
Gary Coopers car is the easiest , so that ist.
Cooper to John Edmonds 1975,Edwards to Phil Ward for components for a sports sedan, thence Michael Pope, as what I don't know, then maybe Geoff Munday, then Gavin Sala,late 80's early 90's, then in 1994 to Barrie Flett of N.Z. AFTER THAT??????

McCormack's , to Phil Moore 1974???to Glen Nicholls 1976,sometime after that to Gavin Sala , now I believe back with John McCormack himself and being restored.

Walker's 5724, to Stan Keen July 1972 who fitted Ford eng. very minimal use , about 6/7 times only , then to Peter Middleton July 1977,fitted Chev..
After Middleton 1979 Tony Parkinson, 1981 Mike Adams , Paul Trevethan, Ranald McLurkin,Peter Brennan,1991-6 David Doubtfire and finally in 1996 to Max Floreani who retains and his son uses in Historic.

Max Stewart , 5722 , [ looks like that good story doesnt
't hold up ] , used by John Leffler , to Baron Robertson, to Doug Trengove about 1982, to Gavin Sala YES ,to Adrian Tweddle of Victoria.

All the above as it came to me via various sources , but I have'nt had time to check.

The worrying part is 3 of the 4 were all with one person , and all about the same time.

Bryan.

spook · 28 Jul 2003, 09:35 (Ref:673095)

There was an Elfin F5000 at the QLD Historics last week-end. Owned and driven by Graham Mein. Which car was that?

Bryan Miller · 28 Jul 2003, 10:56 (Ref:673138)

Spook.
Graham's car is one of the 3 MR8-C versions.
Just offhand I am unable to tell you whether it is ch.no. 8761 or ch.no. 8783.
Bryan.

Amonfan · 28 Jul 2003, 11:04 (Ref:673140)

The Graham Mein car is an Elfin MR8, not sure which one, there were 3 built, the other Elfin MR8 that was at QLD on the weekend was the Aaron Lewis owned car, this was the car Vern Shupann was driving when tragically Max Stewart ran into the back of him and killed. The Elfin was repaired and went to America with Vern at the wheel in can am form. Garrie Cooper had a monster crash in a MR8 at the AGP in 78 at Sandown, but the car was rebuilt, i believe this is the car Larry Perkins used in 79 and then sold to Peter "chris" Middleton, it ran in the colours of blue and white with Chris and was then run at the 80 AGP by Didier Pironi, before being raced by Middleton again. As for the MR5's ZBryan is pretty spot on, i will go thru my notes to compare, but off the top of my head, it all looks pretty good to me. I have an extra owner for the Cooper MR5 cant recall his name but i will look in my RCN's was in 1976, but dont think he ever raced it, although at the time they mentioned he was going to hillclimb it. Hope this helps out

Bryan Miller · 28 Jul 2003, 11:45 (Ref:673169)

Amonfan.
I have been checking designations for these cars and the Elfin book calls them out as ,
CH.NO. 8761 MR8-C
CH.NO. 8772 MR8A-C
CH.NO. 8783 MR8B-C.

The C stands in all cases for Chevrolet , so as to distinguish them from the Repco cars of the MR5 range.

CH.NO. 8772 is the car that Vern Schuppan used in the USA , and is now Aaron Lewis's
Bryan.

Amonfan · 28 Jul 2003, 12:06 (Ref:673187)

Ok so now we just got to work out which car Mein now owns and which MR8 Mike Glynn owns, lol. Bryan, there used to be an owners page on ELfins on the net, i thought it was on the vic historic racing page but i have never found it, any ideas????

Curt

David McKinney · 28 Jul 2003, 19:01 (Ref:673603)

Quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Miller
Allen.
I felt it may be better to start a new thread to deal with these cars. There are only 4 off ,so we should't get into too much trouble.???
MR5-5711 , John McCormack
MR5-5722 , Max Stewart
MR5-5723 , Gary Cooper
MR5-5724 , John Walker.
Ist. note the John Blanden/ Barry Catford Elfin book calls them out as 5711/5712/5713/5714.

I'm sure (as you seem to be) that the book is wrong
First digit - model number
Second and third - year of manufacture
Fourth - serial
Three of them raced in the January 1973 NZ Tasman rounds and I'm sure I checked their chassis-plates as above at that time
McCormack's and Cooper's were works (Team Ansett) entries, Stewart's a private job, and I don't know about Walker's, but I suspect it was also private

Amonfan · 29 Jul 2003, 01:33 (Ref:673823)

I think Walkers was private, wasnt he part of the city state race team with Mal Ramsay and Stewart McLeod???

Bryan Miller · 29 Jul 2003, 05:14 (Ref:673893)

David.
Yes I believe the book is incorrect.
I have had 2 applications for 2 of the cars over the years ,and both applications have called out the numbers as you and I know them,and I therefore presume that the owners at least would have looked at their own chassis plates.
John Walker certainly was involved with City State and 5AD at some time , but without going researching photo's I am unable to remember which cars were involved .
I am fairly certain Walker was , as we would say a privateer.

Bryan.

allenbrown · 29 Jul 2003, 22:27 (Ref:674772)

Amazing - I turn my back for a few minutes and all this happens!

OK, I think I've caught up. Here goes.

5711 - McCormack. I agree with Moore (when still owned by McCormack) and then sold to Glen Nichols December 1975 (source: 1976 Surfers Paradise program p9) but never seen again. To Sala, you say? Said by the Elfin register to be back with McCormack by 1992.

5722 - Stewart. Agree with John Leffler and Baron Robertson but the Doug Trengove bit is new. So is this the highly modified 1981 Elfin 815? The Elfin book said that was the ex-Walker/Keen car but a picture in that book shows 5722 on a shelf about 1979 so maybe this makes more sense. Then Sala, you say? Does Adrian Tweddle still have it?

5723 - Cooper. Knew about John Edmonds but the rest is new. Could you tell me more about the Ward-Pope-Munday-Sala-Flett period?

5724 - Walker. Agree with Stan Keen and Peter Middleton but the rest is new. So clearly this wasn't the Elfin 815.

One puzzle is that Col Trengove enters an Elfin in all the Australian Internationals in 1976 but does not appear. I guess this was some deal that fell through.

Many thanks for all this stuff - I feel an Elfin page coming on.

Allen

Amonfan · 29 Jul 2003, 22:43 (Ref:674783)

The john walker car was the MR5 that was converted to Ground Effects by Trengrove in 81, i was talking to Ranald McLurkin about the car at Sandown in 2001, he raced the car in club racing in 85/86, i wasnt aware paul Trevethan owned it though, altho quite possible as he also owned a MR8 around the same time.

Bryan Miller · 30 Jul 2003, 00:13 (Ref:674824)

Allen.

[ I FEEL AN ELFIN PAGE COMING ON ]

Instantly supress those thoghts , immediately even.

Bryan.

allenbrown · 30 Jul 2003, 07:34 (Ref:674986)

Quote:

Originally posted by Amonfan
The john walker car was the MR5 that was converted to Ground Effects by Trengrove in 81, i was talking to Ranald McLurkin about the car at Sandown in 2001, he raced the car in club racing in 85/86, i wasnt aware paul Trevethan owned it though, altho quite possible as he also owned a MR8 around the same time.

So if McLurkin owned the ex-Walker, ex-Trengove '815', does that mean the histories above are wrong? Bryan is showing Trengove owning the Stewart car.

Allen

Bryan Miller · 30 Jul 2003, 07:46 (Ref:674995)

Amonfan.

Is it possible your getting confused with the MR9 , which wasn't a conversion , but a brand new design/car to the best of my knowledge.

Gary did a sort of conversion on his MR5 , which made it look like a version of a MR8.
This was called the MR5B.
The ch.no.of the MR9 is called out as 80231.

Bryan.

Amonfan · 30 Jul 2003, 12:37 (Ref:675243)

Bryan, i have pics of the car, i think it was called a 815 or something, Mike Adams raced it,i think i confused him with trengrove, lol it had full side podes etc and was apparently ground effects. looked nothing like a MR5, and also nothing like a MR9, lol, if you have RCN from 86, i think the July edition, there is a pic with Ranald McLurkin driving it, the first time i saw it was in 1981 at winton when Mike was driving it, im sure it was Mike Adams, , i know he was a sth aussie. The front of it almost looked like an Elfin 620 was an odd job looking thing

allenbrown · 30 Jul 2003, 19:31 (Ref:675648)

According to the Elfin book (p163), the Elfin 815 appeared at the Rose City Trophy on 25 Oct 1981, driven by Mike Trengove. It was said to be "a much modified Elfin MR5 previously raced by John Walker and Stan Keen". Later it says it had a Boss engine. Later, the book mentions that it raced in the ARCO event that supported the 1981 GP. It is not mentioned again.

If it survives today, it is presumably still in that modified specification.

Allen

Bryan Miller · 30 Jul 2003, 23:19 (Ref:675855)

Allen/Amonfan.

As I said at the start of the thread , I hadn't had time to check, 5724 would be the car , and the paperwork I have has omitted an owner.
Certainly today in Max Floreani's ownership it is back in std. MR5 spec.

I was well out of modern racing at this time , and very involved in historic , as I am now, and I am afraid to say ,especially with the F5000's don't remember.

Bryan.

Amonfan · 31 Jul 2003, 00:10 (Ref:675882)

I do know its converted back to the original spec as a freind of mine know's Max's son Tony, so i assume this is the same car, i dont know where i am getting Mike Adams from, lol. I was at the Winton race, mind you i was only about 12 at the time, lol so excuse the confusion with the Mike's, lol

allenbrown · 31 Jul 2003, 21:02 (Ref:676669)

Bryan, Amonfan

Something doesn't feel right here. Bryan's history of the ex-Walker 5724 goes:

Walker's 5724, to Stan Keen July 1972 who fitted Ford eng. very minimal use, about 6/7 times only, then to Peter Middleton July 1977,fitted Chev.. After Middleton 1979 Tony Parkinson, 1981 Mike Adams , Paul Trevethan, Ranald McLurkin,Peter Brennan,1991-6 David Doubtfire and finally in 1996 to Max Floreani who retains and his son uses in Historic.

Is this all correct, if we are no so sure that 5724 was the car modified by Trengove? Where does Trengove (in late 1981) fit into the "1979 Tony Parkinson, 1981 Mike Adams" sequence?

Then there is the history of 5722:

Max Stewart , 5722 , [ looks like that good story doesn't hold up ] , used by John Leffler , to Baron Robertson, to Doug Trengove about 1982, to Gavin Sala YES ,to Adrian Tweddle of Victoria.

Do we need to take out "to Doug Trengove about 1982" or did the Trengove family really own both cars at about the same time? One oddity here is the picture on p153 of the Elfin book which shows David Earle in his half-built Elfin Aero FF in November 1979. On a shelf in the background is (according to the picture caption) the ex-Stewart MR5. Doug Trengove worked at Elfin's at that time. Had he bought the MR5 and kept it at the factory? What was it doing there? What had happened to the car since Robertson last drove it in 1976. And how does Sala get hold of it? And what does it look like now that Tweddle has it - is it definitely in MR5 spec?

There are still a number of unanswered questions here. I don't feel we've really got to the bottom of this.

Allen

Bryan Miller · 31 Jul 2003, 22:43 (Ref:676719)

Allen.
I will investigate when time permits.

Sala is a dealer.
As I said at the beginning this all is from info. presented to me, but not checked.

Regards Bryan.

Amonfan · 31 Jul 2003, 22:53 (Ref:676729)

To help out a little, i know in 1989 Bryan Sala, son of gavin was racing the Elfin MR5 that became the MR5B that kinda looked like a MR8, he raced it in the Victorian state series.

Bryan Miller · 31 Jul 2003, 23:08 (Ref:676733)

Allen.

I have just spoken to Mike Trengove , the only connection the Trengove's had with MR5'S was Mike's driving of the ex. Walker/Keen car, but he did not own it , only drove it untill Mike Adams obtained his licence, Mike said his father never owned any MR5, just worked at Elfin.
When Mike drove the Adams car it was as the 815,but he also confirmed that it was now back in std. MR5 spec, as I advised earlier , apart from anything else I raced against the car at Sandown PK. Nov. 2001 , and can definately confirm it's spec.then.

Bryan.

Amonfan · 31 Jul 2003, 23:50 (Ref:676753)

So now i know how i got Mike Adams and Mike trengrove mixed up Bryan, lol

Pete Brennan · 21 Mar 2006, 01:58 (Ref:1555414)

5724 was the ground effect car,i bought the car from Paul Trevethan after it hand grenaded the Ford engine.I fitted the Repco/Holden which i bought from John McCormick,it was John's spare flat plane crank engine for the MR6 and I converted it back to MR5 body spec,it was able to run Ford as Stan Keen ,also Chev as Peter Middleton.The side pods were purpose built for Mike Adams by Elfin.I still have the ground effects kit.The flat plane crank engine was an interesing exercise,very difficult to keep things tight,just to read the instruments was a challenge.Also John is well progressed with the rebuild of his own Gold Star winning MR5.I sold 5724 the to David Doubtfire.

flightlessbird · 19 Nov 2006, 04:36 (Ref:1769392)

Where are all the F5000's now they were thin on the ground at the Sandown historic meeting

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