Fitting in at the Revival

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by bauble

John,
Do read the last part of my original post, it still stands, but;

If the cap fits....... Bob

Right I’ve got to get this out of the way so that I can concentrate on more interesting threads.

Bob, I have read the post, properly. Apologising at the end of your first post doesn’t mitigate the criticism. If you were sorry you wouldn’t have said it in the first place. In fact, even the above post is barbed, notwithstanding the double entendre. No the cap bloody well does not fit. I have no problem with the view that you think people should dress for the occasion. I realise a lot of people hold that view. However, it’s a big step moving from that position to criticising those like me, and in the manner that you have (see my earlier post), of those that don’t dress up.

Zef, if Lord March had wanted to bar those who had unsuitable attire, I’m sure he would have made that the rule although I suspect he has more commercial acumen than that.

Someone actually paid for my ticket this year but in the previous 8 years I reckon that I have paid in the region of £500 to get myself and my son into the event and that doesn’t include the cost of the programme or anything else purchased at the circuit. So I think that I have made contribution enough. It’s my choice whether I want to ‘contribute’ further by wearing period costume. This year, the weekend ticket plus programme was £98. If you pay that sort of money, I reckon you should be allowed to choose what you wear to the event within reason! If Lord March decides to make period clothing a rule in the future, then sobeit; I’ll have to make my choice, then! It’s all very well saying that he (and his hundreds of helpers) has made the effort, but he did it because he wanted to and I imagine he has ensured that the event is on a secure financial footing. Some of you make it sound as though his motives were altruistic and he was doing us all a big favour. I concede that he and his team have done a brilliant job. I love the meeting but there are bits I can do without but none so far that would stop me going.

Generally good balanced views from other posters here; I particularly liked Tim’s take on this. Incidentally, I don’t believe that 70% dress ‘appropriately’. It maybe true around the paddock and main grandstand area where they probably carried out a sample count, but not around the circuit as a whole.

Henk’s point about the mobile phones is a good one. That’s very ‘period’, dressed up in 1950’s gear talking to your stockbroker over a mobile phone. So, let’s really go for it to recreate the 1950’s and early 60’s

1) We don’t allow anyone to come in a car newer than 1966.
2) We insist on pre 1966 attire
3) No mobile phones.
4) No post 1966 helicopters flying in and out and absolutely no modern aircraft landing or sitting out on the airfield perimeter; spoils the period view!
5) All competing cars must have the power and performance commensurate with the period in which they ran as contemporary racing cars
6) Those cars must not have roll bars or any other post 1966 safety features (at least nothing visual)
7) Absolutely no fast food stalls
8) No-one walking around with earpieces in listening to the commentary

I’m sure that there are other things that we would need to address as well but that will do.

I must admit that I had thought that for the 10tth Anniversary of the event next year, I might make that extra effort to go ‘period’ but at the moment I feel that sheer bloodymindedness might dictate my usual attire! Hopefully, the steam coming out of my ears will have long since dispersed by then!

Good post, dazbaz. Now back to the proper Goodwood thread, on which I'm now much behind!

[JimW]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Right I’ve got to get this out of the way so that I can concentrate on more interesting threads.

Bob, I have read the post, properly. Apologising at the end of your first post doesn’t mitigate the criticism. If you were sorry you wouldn’t have said it in the first place. In fact, even the above post is barbed, notwithstanding the double entendre. No the cap bloody well does not fit. . . . .

. . . .



I feel that sheer bloodymindedness might dictate my usual attire! Hopefully, the steam coming out of my ears will have long since dispersed by then!

Good post, dazbaz. Now back to the proper Goodwood thread, on which I'm now much behind!

Calm down dear, it's only a motor race.

Regards

Jim

[John Turner]

Exactly my point! ...... but I hope you have read what triggered it all!

[JimW]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Exactly my point! ...... but I hope you have read what triggered it all!

I have. By and large I disagree with you but restricted myself to the post I made.

Actually, only the fact that I would loose my present signature stops me from adopting some variant of the remark as a signature. Funny little man it comes from but great thought. Worrying, isn't it.

Regards

Jim

[simon drabble]

I think its a personal thing - I have gone as a spectator in modern clothes and watched the racing and stayed on the outside, this year I went in period and thoroughly enjoyed it, I will go in period in future years.
The clothing is only oart of it - the attention to detail is superb and to see teh period commercial vehicles etc a joy so from my perspective you feel more part of it in period. However without appearing to sit on the fence I dont hold anything against those that dont - but try it next year and see if it suits!

[Andrew Kitson]

Blimey...this has gone way over the top. Group hug everyone....
I met you there John as you know and you were in civvies but you looked OK and not at all out of place. Infact at the time it was peeing down and I had my 2003 vintage waterproof coat over my period attire. Many do not dress up and that is their choice. This is how it should be and Lord March would and should never make it compulsory!

As I said in my posts in my particular case I feel better dressed up and joining in as many thousands of others do. I do think however the 70% figure is about right all around the circuit. The balance is pretty good I reckon given that you will never ever get everybody to dress up. They shouldn't feel they have to but others like me and friends I have taken before ( like Tim D ) wouldn't dream of going now without the period look (unless it rains!)

But anyone reading this who has never been, I urge you to go, in your normal attire, to simply witness the best race meeting you will see all year. The best atmosphere with the best photo opportunities - something to photograph around every corner let alone the wonderful track and flying action. Then you may want to return the following year and join in with the period look. By the figures quoted - probably a 70/30 chance you will!

[henk4]

Originally Posted by John Turner

So, let’s really go for it to recreate the 1950’s and early 60’s

1) We don’t allow anyone to come in a car newer than 1966.
2) We insist on pre 1966 attire
3) No mobile phones.
4) No post 1966 helicopters flying in and out and absolutely no modern aircraft landing or sitting out on the airfield perimeter; spoils the period view!
5) All competing cars must have the power and performance commensurate with the period in which they ran as contemporary racing cars
6) Those cars must not have roll bars or any other post 1966 safety features (at least nothing visual)
7) Absolutely no fast food stalls
8) No-one walking around with earpieces in listening to the commentary

Of course we want coverage of the event via internet as soon as possible. What would your attitude be against digital cameras?

[brands]

Originally Posted by Dan Friel

Everyone one is of course entitled to their opinions, and no-one (including Lord March) is forcing anyone to act or dress in a way that they don’t want to. I’ve only ever marshalled, and I’m not sure what I’d do if I was to attend in a non-official capability. Probably attempt to dress smartish (a challenge)..

There have always been plenty of spectators that wear “normal” gear, and to be honest it never affects my enjoyment of the day. It’s just a case of what individuals feel comfortable in. Why would anyone feel awkward that some other spectators want to dress up??

Brands - With regards to the aircraft safety zone, by all accounts it was a bit awkward last year, but do you want to miss out on Goodwood forevermore on the back of one bad experience? Or where there other issues? I have to say that watching most historics (especially the really old cars) around Silverstone is just slightly numbing..

If dressing up was part of the deal then at least everyone would know and would have to make that choice before booking tickets.

For me the reason for the Revival has been lost in pursuit of the commerical gain, as more of the event turns corporate so less people care and watch the racing.
We moved away from the pit straight areas three years ago mainly because of the ignorant types that spoiled our enjoyment of the racing wandering over from hospitality. Yes they were mainly dressed up, yes they were very loud and no they didn't have a clue about motorsport.
We moved around to the exit of Lavant in '04 to get away from those types and it was a much better event since it was mainly the motorsport fans that made the effort to travel away from the corporate troughs. However by last year the "Henrys" had started to invade even this area and so I decided the Revival meeting was no longer for me.

Silverstone isn't as good for watching I agree, although there is a far better range of cars, better paddock/pit access and much friendly and knowledgeable crowd.

Thankfully I have a replacement event available


btw.....excellent post John

[Daimlerman]

Have been to all the Revivals and have always dressed in period (as does my wife). To us it is part of the atmosphere of the event, and in any case we like to dress in period with our car (1955 Daimler) especially when parked on the Lavant Bank.

But it is not just about the dress. for some reason manners seem to revert to a bygone age as well. People say please and thank you. The men raise their hats when greeting ladies. It is all part of the atmosphere.

Having said all that, it is surely up to an individuals personal preference, it's just that we feel we get more out of the event by joining in.

[PeterMorley]

A big problem is with the definition of period attire.

Before the first Revival meeting (where we ran my 1961 Emeryson F1 car) we made the following observations:

Cyril Linstone offered to wear the jumper he had worn to the first Goodwood race meeting (he didn't mention that it was currently lining the dog basket!).

I offered to wear the same as in a photo of my car racing at Goodwood (e.g. jeans & t-shirt worn by Tony Settember's crew).

To both of these we were told it would be inappropriate dress.

Now what could be more original than an original, ex-Goodwood, jumper, and why should jeans be inappropriate when they had been around a 100 years or so by the time Goodwood opened for motor races.

Appropriate dress would seem to be wartime, which was some time before racing took place at Goodwood.

I think that they should do like some concours events where they encourage people to wear clothing of the period of the particular car.

In the end I wore my original 1960s Dunlop overalls, and a bouncer (someone on a gate) even had the cheek to suggest that they were inapropriate!

[henk4]

My 24 year old son, who covered the event as a photographer, (for whom an explicit dress code was part of the accreditation) had to go shopping in London to get the correct clothes. He never wears a tie and does hardly know how to fix it. For less than 100 pounds he found a pair of trousers, a jacket, two shirts and a tie. As long as everything is brown (except the shirt of course ) it can be considered "period"....

[bauble]

Oh! Dear, when I started his thread I thought it would be a friendly discussion, but as always I have caused offence to some it would seem.

Never mind I will stick to my guns, however, I do not have a big issue with people turning up in normal attire such as JT (I assume) it is the totally INAPPROPRIATE items I PERSONALLY dislike. If I were Lord March my message would be 'Don't spoil the the ethos.'

This is as far as I know the only event where one is asked to 'fit in' dress wise, as pointed out by others there are plenty of opportunities to watch motor racing wearing anything you like. Lord March puts a lot in as do the teams and drivers, all to make it a special event, so if you enjoy going but will not 'join in' then so be it, your choice, but I find it very sad that people will not put aside there own preferences (for want of a better word) just because they 'don't see why they should' Sorry, but I believe they are the losers.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by bauble

Oh! Dear, when I started his thread I thought it would be a friendly discussion, but as always I have caused offence to some it would seem.

Well I think it still is rather friendly. atlhough I have to say that forcing me to wear I tie always makes me think of what I heard a doctor once say: "A tie hampers the flow of blood to your brain and hence affects your ability to think"

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by henk4

Of course we want coverage of the event via internet as soon as possible. What would your attitude be against digital cameras?

I had a feeling one or two had missed the point. It was irony. The list I put forward was supposed to highlight the extremes to which you would have to go to really recapture the essence of the 1950's and 60's, not a genuine proposal, and certainly not one that I would support or is remotely practical. And yes, you would have to exclude digital cameras; lots of scanning to do then, eh?

Just to repeat; I don't have a problem with anyone who says that we should attempt to go in period attire. It's just an opinion afterall. My issue is with the points made that those who don't wear 'appropriate' attire have been described as having double standards, are inconsiderate and ill mannered. Since I have been held up as the example of this, I find it very personally offensive, although I note that Bob has now attempted to clarify by pinning down his dislike.

I think Peter Morley's excellent post is most interesting as that indicates an issue about what they actually mean by period 'attire'.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by John Turner

I think Peter Morley's excellent post is most interesting as that indicates an issue about what they actually mean by period 'attire'.

Yes and it makes you wonder how 30 year old "bouncers" have been instructed as to what can be considered the "correct" period clothing...

[TimD]

One has to be careful with the props, too. I recall being at an early Revival and being mightily impressed with the attention to detail displayed by one of the photographers in the paddock.

Not only had he a gaberdine coat, trilby and a press badge tucked into the hat brim, but he had a gorgeous 1950s Hasselblad which he was using to get his shots.

Five minutes later, he dropped it...

[bauble]

Good point about original attire, because inspite of being an advocate of 'dressing up, I have to admit that I would not be allowed into the paddock wearing anything I wore in the circuits heyday. I first went to Goodwood in 1952 and was a regular attendee (?) up until the early sixties and I never wore a tie and rarely, if ever, a sports coat and cap, but if the drivers can't wear Simpson helmets and tee shirts, then we have to make do with what we can. This year I wore a bicycle cape when it rained on Saturday and it is possible that this was an 'original garment', it was certainly very period, and I have had it a very long time. Hmm! I wonder what would have happened if I had tried to get into the paddock with it?

Some posters have mentioned 'jobsworths' and that reminded me that there were plenty of them around in the fifties and I seem to recall that it was not easy to get into the paddock area even then, Nothing changes!

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by henk4

Well I think it still is rather friendly. atlhough I have to say that forcing me to wear I tie always makes me think of what I heard a doctor once say: "A tie hampers the flow of blood to your brain and hence affects your ability to think"

I loathe ties! They cause an awful amount of distress when caught in machinery.

I've seen someones tie catch in a lathe, and had my jumper torn off by a Bugatti magneto drive, I really do not like the idea of wearing ties near machinery (hence the bow tie on my last Goodwood visit!).

I've never understood the attraction of ties, and having looked at many period Goodwood photos I think the most important item of period clothing was a very warm coat, preferably waterproof!

[zefarelly]

Agreed JT, Lord March has his eyes firmly on the budget, and if we're being pernickety, most peoples idea of period dress, even if they do dress up, is pretty poor. I feel I'm qualified to comment such as I have worked in the rag trade, and keep a substantial wardrobe myself !!!

The bottom line for me is the whole reason the revival is so popular is the period feel, therefore turning up in white trainers and jeans looking like you've come direct from a heavy metal convention spoils it for everyone else IMO

I was working, wearing a shirt and overalls and got turned away from the posh pits on Sunday for not wearing a tie, fair enough I thought . . . so I walked the long way round, I didn't bother disputing the fact, I knew the rules, even though I was rushing race spares to a desperate competitor.

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by John Turner

I think Peter Morley's excellent post is most interesting as that indicates an issue about what they actually mean by period 'attire'.

If we applied the Goodwood clothing rules to the cars themselves, Formula Juniors would probably be running on 19" wire wheels!

Most car owners have period photos of their cars and I'm sure that very few of them feature similar attire to that which is encouraged by Goodwood.

I've a photo of Steve McQueen stood beside my Lotus, if he turned up in the same attire at Goodwood he probably wouldn't get in the paddock!

p.s. thanks for the compliment - most my posts end up with a series of complaints!

[Nordic]

I agree with John Turner, fancy dress is optional and for anyone to think less of someone else because they choose to not to is quite frankly pretty small minded.

I go to Goodwood to enjoy the racing and too see the wonderful cars, some of which I noted where sporting less than period sponsors logos from Red Bull or JCB to name but two. Others may go to be 'part of it', hence the dressing up and I shall not critise or judge them for that.

All the time Lord March is happy to except my hard earned £'s, I will decide what to wear based of current wardrode/weather/comfort. (should he decide to charge 50's admission price in return for dressing up, then I shall of coarse reserve the right to go as group captain smythe-bollington)

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Nordic

All the time Lord March is happy to except my hard earned £'s, I will decide what to wear based of current wardrode/weather/comfort. (should he decide to charge 50's admission price in return for dressing up, then I shall of coarse reserve the right to go as group captain smythe-bollington)

that spelling can't have been anything but deliberate....

[JimW]

Originally Posted by henk4

Well I think it still is rather friendly. atlhough I have to say that forcing me to wear I tie always makes me think of what I heard a doctor once say: "A tie hampers the flow of blood to your brain and hence affects your ability to think"

Yes possibly but if one was sufficiently intelligent in the first place, one would not tie it so tight.

(I speak as a hater of ties who has worn one all his working life.)

Regards

Jim

[ensign14]

I have never been, but I assume my 1950s Birmingham City replica shirt would be appropriate attire, being the 50s an' all.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by JimW

(I speak as a hater of ties who has worn one all his working life.)

apparently we all end up as consultants after having worn ties all of our working life.....