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Old 2 Oct 2021, 16:25 (Ref:4076682)   #31
grantp
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grantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Tel 911S View Post
Was it Williams F1 team who got into trouble for bags of lead shot in their fuel tanks . They claimed it was ballast , but it was well known to raise the octane rating .
Tyrrell.

But I thought it was indeed ballast in order to make sure they were not underweight at the end of the race.

I wouldn't have thought that lead in a foam tank would make much difference for the few minutes it would be in there after re-fuelling.

Whether Williams or others also employed the same ideas at some point I have no idea.
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Old 2 Oct 2021, 17:01 (Ref:4076688)   #32
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Originally Posted by grantp View Post
Tyrrell.

But I thought it was indeed ballast in order to make sure they were not underweight at the end of the race.

I wouldn't have thought that lead in a foam tank would make much difference for the few minutes it would be in there after re-fuelling.

Whether Williams or others also employed the same ideas at some point I have no idea.
I think in the era of DFV's v Turbos the FOCA (non manufacturer) teams saw the reduction of weight as to their only answer to turbo power.... Williams answer was water cooled brakes.... water injection to 'cool' the brakes. Basically they had a large water tank in the sidepod that injected water onto the brakes, The water dissipated very quickly, the tank emptied in a lap or two leaving the cars to run underweight for the race, covered by being allowed to refill 'cooling' fluids used. The water tanks were IIRC a decent size so the weight loss was noticeable. Williams came 1&2 in I think Brazil and were protested (by the FISA / manufacturer/turbo teams) on the water cooling 'scam' and DSQ'd.

Edit: Found an article confirming the above plus highlighting others doing similar (includes the Tyrrell one explained) Interesting read.
https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/ba...rules/4791237/

Last edited by E.B; 2 Oct 2021 at 17:07. Reason: Added link to article with additional info.
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Old 2 Oct 2021, 19:14 (Ref:4076705)   #33
Tel 911S
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Tel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by grantp View Post
Tyrrell.

But I thought it was indeed ballast in order to make sure they were not underweight at the end of the race.

I wouldn't have thought that lead in a foam tank would make much difference for the few minutes it would be in there after re-fuelling.

Whether Williams or others also employed the same ideas at some point I have no idea.
Thinking back , you are right , it was Tyrell.
I think it was played down at the time to try to deny that they were running very high compression engines which needed higher octanes than were allowed under pump fuel rules .

But lead pellets were used in WW2 for fighters that were shipped to Russia .Merlin engines needed high octane fuel , which the Russians had very little .
So lead pellets , [ possibly plus some other metals ] were used in the fuel lines / tanks which raised the octane rating high enough for the engines to work .
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Old 5 Oct 2021, 14:55 (Ref:4077052)   #34
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Originally Posted by Tel 911S View Post
Thinking back , you are right , it was Tyrell.
I think it was played down at the time to try to deny that they were running very high compression engines which needed higher octanes than were allowed under pump fuel rules .

But lead pellets were used in WW2 for fighters that were shipped to Russia .Merlin engines needed high octane fuel , which the Russians had very little .
So lead pellets , [ possibly plus some other metals ] were used in the fuel lines / tanks which raised the octane rating high enough for the engines to work .
This reminds me of a device called (if memory serves me correctly) something like POWER+. It was a small cartridge containing lead pellets & other 'precious metals' that was supposed to be connected to your fuel line so when the fuel passed through it, the octane level increased. They claimed at the time that it used technology that was used during WW2...
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Old 5 Oct 2021, 15:22 (Ref:4077058)   #35
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There was a device called the Broquet (IIRC) that was promoted quite a lot a while ago that similarly purported to have "magic" results by being some sort of lead substitute....
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Old 5 Oct 2021, 17:54 (Ref:4077093)   #36
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Tel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I believe that the "Broquet " product was based 0n the idea of the WW2 aircraft fuel cell.

Lead and another metal ,[ not quite sure what ] have an electrolytic reaction when a fluid conductor , [ petrol ] comes between them . [ Something like a lead acid battery ].
This causes fine lead fragments to mix in with the petrol , and therefore raises the octane rating by a fair bit .

Can,t remember all of the tech details , but it did work .
So it is quite possible that the idea has been used for various other applications .
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