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Old 30 Sep 2021, 13:42 (Ref:4076413)   #16
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
You may be correct - but it could also be a false assumption. The individual may have been filling up a can for a lawnmower (or other petrol tool). The person may be on limited means, and towards the end of the month they can only afford a small amount to keep them going (youngster on a scooter maybe?).
I agree that there are a lot of people 'topping up' without real need and adding to the problem, but not all small transaction can be classed as such.

You are right and what you said did occur to me after I had posted.
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Old 30 Sep 2021, 13:46 (Ref:4076414)   #17
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You are right and what you said did occur to me after I had posted.
- didn't mean to sound harsh, I just recall a time in life when I was working out if 5 pounds worth of fuel would see me through to the end of the month, and coming off throttle on every downhill stretch of road to extract every last slice of mpg.

And then last week realising our lawnmower needed fuel and wondering how much abuse I would get at the pumps for filling the fuel can.
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Old 30 Sep 2021, 19:08 (Ref:4076445)   #18
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post

And then last week realising our lawnmower needed fuel and wondering how much abuse I would get at the pumps for filling the fuel can.
I used the last of my mower fuel (or at least put it in the mower) last weekend.

I think I can get another mow out of it and avoid the current queues.

If all else fails I will have to rely on the battery powered grass trimmer.

The idea o d forcing people to limit their fill to £20 or £30 is a great way to ensure maximum inconvenience (and so persuade people to avoid travel) whilst providing the media with plenty of opportunities for pictures of cars queuing to fill up - mainly because they could not put a sensible amount in the tank the day before.

Presumably if one does a "Pay at pump" and simply uses 2 or 3 cards one after the other one can get a full tank but it will take a little longer, slowing everyone else down.
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Old 30 Sep 2021, 21:35 (Ref:4076452)   #19
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.

The idea o d forcing people to limit their fill to £20 or £30 is a great way to ensure maximum inconvenience (and so persuade people to avoid travel) whilst providing the media with plenty of opportunities for pictures of cars queuing to fill up - mainly because they could not put a sensible amount in the tank the day before.

I also think that if the car wont take the 20 or 30 quid that the filling station is allowing then they should still have to pay the amount stated
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Old 30 Sep 2021, 21:37 (Ref:4076453)   #20
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Further proof that the worlds gone mad. Just been out to fill up. Morrisons - 24 Hour completely shut, Esso garage only had petrol with a maximum spend of £35, so third time lucky @ Asda where they had Diesel (and Petrol) and as much as I wanted, so £78 will get me to Silverstone and back on Saturday.
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Old 1 Oct 2021, 15:30 (Ref:4076542)   #21
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As big oil transitions to Big E and the entire electricity supply world seems to be claiming that all their supplied are 100% "Green", I do wonder whether the oil persons are actually bothered about making supplies available rather than making a case for converting their forecourts into electric parking bays. Or, in some cases when the tanks need replacement, housing plots.

If the certainty of continuity of supply was considered a key factor in their business plan and future modelling ... how did they allow the current situation, bubbling under for a few years now, to suddenly become a major issue just when everything else seems to be reaching the same point?

Or perhaps they have been concerned - along with all other businesses around the world - and have no means at their disposal to deflect or prevent the problems.

Still, if shortages mean prices can go up and competition is restricted one would have to fall back to the old adage that "It's an ill wind that blows nobody any good."
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Old 1 Oct 2021, 16:56 (Ref:4076550)   #22
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Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER View Post
I also think that if the car wont take the 20 or 30 quid that the filling station is allowing then they should still have to pay the amount stated
During a previous fuel shortage/panic (quite a long time ago) a a friend who owned an independent garage/petrol station instituted a £25 minimum spend no matter how small the actual quantity purchased. Quite clever I thought.
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Old 1 Oct 2021, 17:22 (Ref:4076551)   #23
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As big oil transitions to Big E and the entire electricity supply world seems to be claiming that all their supplied are 100% "Green", I do wonder whether the oil persons are actually bothered about making supplies available rather than making a case for converting their forecourts into electric parking bays. Or, in some cases when the tanks need replacement, housing plots.

If the certainty of continuity of supply was considered a key factor in their business plan and future modelling ... how did they allow the current situation, bubbling under for a few years now, to suddenly become a major issue just when everything else seems to be reaching the same point?

Or perhaps they have been concerned - along with all other businesses around the world - and have no means at their disposal to deflect or prevent the problems.

Still, if shortages mean prices can go up and competition is restricted one would have to fall back to the old adage that "It's an ill wind that blows nobody any good."
There is no fuel shortage , all of the fuel companies have plenty in stock .
The problem is getting it to the garages .
Poland is about 100,000 HGV drivers short , Germany over 60,000 down , most of Europe has a shortage of drivers and UK needs another 60,000 odd .
But a lot of the UKs problem stems from the DVLA , which used the Pandemic to hold up 54,000 HGV licence applications .
As well as the driver shortage , an anti Brexit supporter decided to create a panic by saying there would be no fuel at garages , which has led to the current problem so that they could blame it on Brexit . He probably saw the earlier toilet roll buying chaos and thought he would do the same with petrol .
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Old 1 Oct 2021, 21:48 (Ref:4076576)   #24
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There is no fuel shortage , all of the fuel companies have plenty in stock .
The problem is getting it to the garages .
Poland is about 100,000 HGV drivers short , Germany over 60,000 down , most of Europe has a shortage of drivers and UK needs another 60,000 odd .
But a lot of the UKs problem stems from the DVLA , which used the Pandemic to hold up 54,000 HGV licence applications .
As well as the driver shortage , an anti Brexit supporter decided to create a panic by saying there would be no fuel at garages , which has led to the current problem so that they could blame it on Brexit . He probably saw the earlier toilet roll buying chaos and thought he would do the same with petrol .
Indeed.

My wife managed to fill up (well, put £40 in through her own choice) today but as she told me only E10 was available. Her friends have come up with th afew claimed E10 issues so she is a bit wary - hence only about 2/3 of a tank purchased.

An '05 Corolla should be OK .... but who knows these days.

However, it did occur to me that if someone really wanted to mess with people AND "prove" that E10 was generally OK, creating an artificial availability shortage and then making only E10 available (or severely restricting anything else) might be an interesting ploy. If the opportunity was spotted at the right moment.
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Old 1 Oct 2021, 22:14 (Ref:4076577)   #25
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Purlease Grant. You're only one step away from the FB "friend" who claims the the fuel panic is caused by the oil companies trying to get rid of unsold petrol stored too long due to lockdown.



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Old 1 Oct 2021, 23:28 (Ref:4076593)   #26
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Purlease Grant. You're only one step away from the FB "friend" who claims the the fuel panic is caused by the oil companies trying to get rid of unsold petrol stored too long due to lockdown.


Max, well, possibly a bit extreme but with so many strange decisions being made these days I'm sure a few unusual and possibly unauthorised middle-management decisions could slip through although simple cockups are probably more likely reasons.

We are at the point where winter spec. fuel would be coming into distribution (possibly less of a concern in the UK) and we ARE being advised that having more ethanol in the fuel means it does not store so well for so long ...

Just saying.

There is a great little book, written in the mid 1800's about "The Madness of Crowds".

One sometimes wonders whether there may be some people trawling through for ideas about how to generate similar responses to those of the Crowds mentioned therein but in the modern era.
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Old 2 Oct 2021, 08:43 (Ref:4076640)   #27
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Max, well, possibly a bit extreme but with so many strange decisions being made these days I'm sure a few unusual and possibly unauthorised middle-management decisions could slip through although simple cockups are probably more likely reasons.

We are at the point where winter spec. fuel would be coming into distribution (possibly less of a concern in the UK) and we ARE being advised that having more ethanol in the fuel means it does not store so well for so long ...

Just saying.

There is a great little book, written in the mid 1800's about "The Madness of Crowds".

One sometimes wonders whether there may be some people trawling through for ideas about how to generate similar responses to those of the Crowds mentioned therein but in the modern era.
I am not sure about winter spec fuel .
I remember back about 1992 [ I think ] , Winter came early and caught a lot of vehicles out with freezing fuel . After that I believe they kept Winter spec fuel going here all year round .It is less efficient and therefore they sell more of it .
Might have only been for diesel. But I was finding that tanks full of fuel in France or Spain were doing a lot more miles than in the UK all year round . Through the 90s I was doing hundreds of thousands of miles around UK and Europe & noticed the difference a lot .
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Old 2 Oct 2021, 08:54 (Ref:4076641)   #28
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I am not sure about winter spec fuel .
I remember back about 1992 [ I think ] , Winter came early and caught a lot of vehicles out with freezing fuel . After that I believe they kept Winter spec fuel going here all year round .It is less efficient and therefore they sell more of it .
Might have only been for diesel. But I was finding that tanks full of fuel in France or Spain were doing a lot more miles than in the UK all year round . Through the 90s I was doing hundreds of thousands of miles around UK and Europe & noticed the difference a lot .
I can concur with that! I used to find the same thing when coming over here on trips before moving, & filling up in France.

At the time, a friend had an Alfa 155 (2-litre petrol engine) - the same as myself - and he had exactly the same experience.
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Old 2 Oct 2021, 12:18 (Ref:4076648)   #29
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I had a garage and petrol pumps from 1968-1989 and had to get through shortages and "waxing" diesel in winter. We used to mix paraffin to diesel back then to use it during extremely cold weather , in actually fact an inline pump diesel engine will run totally on paraffin but only when it is hot, but I don't know about newer electronic injection stuff.
During one shortage spell back in the70s I was running one of my petrol vans on a 50/50 petrol/paraffin mix, it didn't start or go too well but at least it was usable to get about.
As for unleaded going off after a long while, It will last a lot longer if you put a lump of lead in the tank ! Indeed I used lead balls in the tank of my race car for years and sometimes ran it on low octane unleaded with no problem at at a static CR of 13/1

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Old 2 Oct 2021, 13:27 (Ref:4076656)   #30
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I had a garage and petrol pumps from 1968-1989 and had to get through shortages and "waxing" diesel in winter. We used to mix paraffin to diesel back then to use it during extremely cold weather , in actually fact an inline pump diesel engine will run totally on paraffin but only when it is hot, but I don't know about newer electronic injection stuff.
During one shortage spell back in the70s I was running one of my petrol vans on a 50/50 petrol/paraffin mix, it didn't start or go too well but at least it was usable to get about.
As for unleaded going off after a long while, It will last a lot longer if you put a lump of lead in the tank ! Indeed I used lead balls in the tank of my race car for years and sometimes ran it on low octane unleaded with no problem at at a static CR of 13/1
Was it Williams F1 team who got into trouble for bags of lead shot in their fuel tanks . They claimed it was ballast , but it was well known to raise the octane rating .

But this E10 fuel thing is all about taking more money off motorists .
It is claimed to be environmentally friendly , but the claim turns out at less than 1% lower emissions than normal petrol , when a lot of cars will use between 10 & 20 % more . So it actually produces 9 to 19% more emissions .
But it does increase fuel taxation income by 10 to 20% for the government .
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