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Old 28 Sep 2020, 10:12 (Ref:4007129)   #901
dwh43scale
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Speaking as a spectator snapper, who has the benefit of having finished full time employment, I have now been to eight English motorsport venues, some on multiple occasions, since July for both car and bike racing. This has not included Silverstone to date for obvious reasons.

I have really enjoyed some of the "greener" venues where you aren't constantly shooting through or over fencing, don't have fencing or acres of gravel as a back drop or those where you can get closer to the action.

I do hope that Silverstone can find a way to accommodate (in a Covid secure way) spectators for British GT, HSCC finals, WHT and the Birkett, but am not holding my breath. After the last few weeks I am also not sure how much I want to negotiate the photographic challenges there if there are better shots to be had elsewhere !

On a side note, having been brought up on four wheeled motorsport, I have really enjoyed shooting bikes - there's something about seeing the rider often hidden behind bodywork in a car. Theres also the fact that we all think we could get a Fiesta or a Clio round a track at reasonable speed - but a bike - NO WAY !
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Old 28 Sep 2020, 11:05 (Ref:4007143)   #902
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I'm sure we all have favourite and less favourite places, coloured by whether we are driving, snapping marshalling or spectating. I enjoyed racing at Rockingham - possibly because it was different - but by heaven it was soul-less. Silverstone National is a bit boring, but I quite like the International.....picturesque it ain't, though. Brands Indy makes me dizzy....I know its a "classic" but I can't be bothered dragging myself the length of the country (and the M25) to go round in small circles...although to contradict myself I enjoy Mallory, which is equally small I did love the one race at Brands GP circuit 10 years ago - that was worth the trip!

Never warmed to Snetterton - again maybe because of its remoteness (for me), but I do like circuits which involve gradients.....so Donington, Oulton, Anglesey, Cadwell are all favourites of mine (and co-incidentally more accessible )

Croft is near enough too, and I don't dislike it, but equally it doesn't excite me. I'd love to try a race at Knockhill - I've been driven round it by Pete Richards in his Clan, which was exciting - but not many race series are prepared to contemplate a visit there, when even Oulton elicits complaints about being "too far north". I suppose I should try Castle Combe and Thruxton sometime before I get too old (too late, do I hear you cry? ) but though CSCC did/will go there this year the dreaded virus (Back on topic!) has put the mockers on our racing this year.
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Old 28 Sep 2020, 11:26 (Ref:4007156)   #903
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The Silverstone national may not be the most exciting or challenging circuit, but watching the BTCC coverage yesterday it does provide plenty of good action, at times it’s almost like an oval race with the packs of cars you get. It makes it different from other circuits and layouts, which is a good thing about the circuits in the country. They offer a good bit of variety and they certainly ain’t the cookie cutters you get in other countries
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Old 28 Sep 2020, 15:30 (Ref:4007202)   #904
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I'm sure we all have favourite and less favourite places, coloured by whether we are driving, snapping marshalling or spectating. I enjoyed racing at Rockingham - possibly because it was different - but by heaven it was soul-less. Silverstone National is a bit boring, but I quite like the International.....picturesque it ain't, though. Brands Indy makes me dizzy....I know its a "classic" but I can't be bothered dragging myself the length of the country (and the M25) to go round in small circles...although to contradict myself I enjoy Mallory, which is equally small I did love the one race at Brands GP circuit 10 years ago - that was worth the trip!

Never warmed to Snetterton - again maybe because of its remoteness (for me), but I do like circuits which involve gradients.....so Donington, Oulton, Anglesey, Cadwell are all favourites of mine (and co-incidentally more accessible )

Croft is near enough too, and I don't dislike it, but equally it doesn't excite me. I'd love to try a race at Knockhill - I've been driven round it by Pete Richards in his Clan, which was exciting - but not many race series are prepared to contemplate a visit there, when even Oulton elicits complaints about being "too far north". I suppose I should try Castle Combe and Thruxton sometime before I get too old (too late, do I hear you cry? ) but though CSCC did/will go there this year the dreaded virus (Back on topic!) has put the mockers on our racing this year.
Scottish Classic Sports and Saloons would make you welcome as a guest competitor, Richard.
Your Alfa would be eligible in future classics class.
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Old 28 Sep 2020, 18:07 (Ref:4007238)   #905
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The Silverstone national may not be the most exciting or challenging circuit, but watching the BTCC coverage yesterday it does provide plenty of good action, at times it’s almost like an oval race with the packs of cars you get.
Yes it does. It's a good circuit for racing and I always enjoy watching Silverstone races on TV, when you can fully appreciate the awesome sweeps of Backetts, the slow corners, fast straights, the Club complex.

But this debate was about what circuits are like to visit as a spectator.

BTW you didn't answer the question about other circuits you have personally visited which are better or worse than Silverstone.
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Old 28 Sep 2020, 19:19 (Ref:4007245)   #906
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Never warmed to Snetterton - again maybe because of its remoteness (for me), but I do like circuits which involve gradients.....so Donington, Oulton, Anglesey, Cadwell are all favourites of mine (and co-incidentally more accessible )
Never warmed to Snet! somewhat unsurprising IMO since it's always bl..dy freezing being so close to Siberia although Knockhill takes some beating in that regard but the viewing is superb. As a spectator, Donington, Cadwell and Oulton are great but my goodness Anglesey requires some serious legwork! must be incredible to drive along with Cadwell my personal favourite.
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Old 28 Sep 2020, 22:02 (Ref:4007275)   #907
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Never warmed to Snet! somewhat unsurprising IMO since it's always bl..dy freezing being so close to Siberia although Knockhill takes some beating in that regard but the viewing is superb. As a spectator, Donington, Cadwell and Oulton are great but my goodness Anglesey requires some serious legwork! must be incredible to drive along with Cadwell my personal favourite.

Anglesey is awesome, with the only caveat that admiring the beauty of Snowdon as you start the return trip towards the pits can be slightly distracting as you approach the corkscrew


@ Malcolm Smith - tempting, but as I share the Alfa with its owner in our CSCC series he might not want to let me loose with it I do have a cunning plan involving a 75 TS that I've had for years, however.
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Old 29 Sep 2020, 10:52 (Ref:4007355)   #908
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@ Malcolm Smith - tempting, but as I share the Alfa with its owner in our CSCC series he might not want to let me loose with it I do have a cunning plan involving a 75 TS that I've had for years, however.
What's this Richard?

Have you been keeping secrets from us?

I think we should be told!
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Old 29 Sep 2020, 10:59 (Ref:4007356)   #909
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I do have a cunning plan involving a 75 TS that I've had for years, however.
Go on, Richard, do it. The world needs more Alfas racing
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Old 29 Sep 2020, 21:40 (Ref:4007466)   #910
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What's this Richard?

Have you been keeping secrets from us?

I think we should be told!

I bought this 75 TS from Ebay years ago - it had been prepared by some guy as a trackday car - rebuilt engine and box, stripped interior, caged etc, but only used for one trackday then parked up at the back of the owners premises for 13 years before I bought it as his general car prep work got in the way.......on the way back from collecting it, Steve and I called in to see the 75 V6 that Dave Messenger had been running in the Alfa Championship, which he was selling as he was moving into a 156 TS. So Steve bought the V6 and as it was an up-and-running race car, that's what we've used. The TS has sat in my unit for another few years....it must be 20 years since it turned a wheel in anger, now, so I should do something with it, If I can dig my way through the other stuff in the unit......I'm a lot better at buying things than selling them (Edit: Just checked and I bought it in April 2012, so its well over 20 years since it was used....... )
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 07:19 (Ref:4007515)   #911
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I bought this 75 TS from Ebay years ago - it had been prepared by some guy as a trackday car - rebuilt engine and box, stripped interior, caged etc, but only used for one trackday then parked up at the back of the owners premises for 13 years before I bought it as his general car prep work got in the way.......on the way back from collecting it, Steve and I called in to see the 75 V6 that Dave Messenger had been running in the Alfa Championship, which he was selling as he was moving into a 156 TS. So Steve bought the V6 and as it was an up-and-running race car, that's what we've used. The TS has sat in my unit for another few years....it must be 20 years since it turned a wheel in anger, now, so I should do something with it, If I can dig my way through the other stuff in the unit......I'm a lot better at buying things than selling them (Edit: Just checked and I bought it in April 2012, so its well over 20 years since it was used....... )
A rather lovely 75 1.8 Turbo QV sold for £24,080 at Classics auction on Saturday.

Was it you passing by, by any chance?
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 07:29 (Ref:4007518)   #912
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A rather lovely 75 1.8 Turbo QV sold for £24,080 at Classics auction on Saturday.

Was it you passing by, by any chance?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...f=99&t=1892486
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 07:45 (Ref:4007524)   #913
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He's a lucky man - or rather his wife is a lucky lady! Wonder who gets to drive it most...
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 08:16 (Ref:4007532)   #914
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Back o the coronavirus...i did my first full MSUK weekend with masks Saturday/Sunday just gone. It really was no problem. I cannot understand those who kick up a fuss about it, compared to some of tjhe draconian measures we're seeing it's a minor inconvenience in order to keep racing.

Actually, the "draconian" 10:00pm curfew in the hotel probably saved me Saturday night. I'd had "some" beer and was lining up for "some" more, it was a very, very good job I was ushered off to bed
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Old 19 Oct 2020, 12:21 (Ref:4011495)   #915
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Not strictly motorsport, but an event run under MSUK permit...

The 2020 Veteran Car Run has now been cancelled..
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Old 19 Oct 2020, 14:21 (Ref:4011504)   #916
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Well I guess something had to give, a shame, but it's not the end of the world. We've had cancellations of annual events in the past, sometimes circumstances can get in the way, we'll see if the Veteran Car Run can come back in 2021, would be a shame to lose it permantly
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Old 19 Oct 2020, 15:09 (Ref:4011519)   #917
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Yes our very own Colin McKay was entered in an old vintage truck. This event always clashes with Walter Hayes other wise I would of loved the chance to of gone with him. Its a box that needs ticking.
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Old 19 Oct 2020, 16:00 (Ref:4011523)   #918
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Well I guess something had to give, a shame, but it's not the end of the world. We've had cancellations of annual events in the past, sometimes circumstances can get in the way, we'll see if the Veteran Car Run can come back in 2021, would be a shame to lose it permantly

It will be back. Slightly unfortunate for Goose again though as this is another event they run (for the RAC Club who own the run) on the back of the SC, Formula Student and Regent Street Motor Show cancellations.


Tricky time to be in the live events business and 2021 not shaping up to be much easier IMO.
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Old 19 Oct 2020, 21:25 (Ref:4011555)   #919
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I've done the commercial run a couple of times with a 1924 Thornycroft and was very much looking forward to doing the real thing in a Darracq although it was going to be a much smaller affair than usual. Oh well, if there's an invite there's always next year. I'll put my Damart undies back in the drawer for now
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Old 20 Oct 2020, 08:08 (Ref:4011612)   #920
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An interesting development over on FB, where someone has highlighted that some kart circuits are refusing entries from drivers in Tier 3 areas.

He's complaining that it's not fair on drivers living there, the races should be run as non championship. My thoughts are that it's hard but a fact of life. There's many "unfair" reasons that a driver can't take part (illness/budget/mechanicals etc), this is just another of them. 2020 is a disaster anyway, not winning a plastic cup is the least of them.


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Old 20 Oct 2020, 08:14 (Ref:4011615)   #921
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An interesting development over on FB, where someone has highlighted that some kart circuits are refusing entries from drivers in Tier 3 areas.

He's complaining that it's not fair on drivers living there, the races should be run as non championship. My thoughts are that it's hard but a fact of life. There's many "unfair" reasons that a driver can't take part (illness/budget/mechanicals etc), this is just another of them. 2020 is a disaster anyway, not winning a plastic cup is the least of them.


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Points all totally well put.
(hadn't we better put in a temporary icon for the elbow greet?!)
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Old 20 Oct 2020, 08:42 (Ref:4011618)   #922
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The loss of the commercially run events may not be a bad thing if it allows clubs to get back into organising similar events. I think in recent years the whole classic events scene has become over commercialised with all sorts of people exploiting it. One of the big issues for motorsport is that it is a very rich sport with plenty of people taking that money out. The sport itself in terms of our governing body, is one of the poorest sports in the UK, whereas Rugby Union for example actually runs its major events and ploughed the money (£111m last year) back into the sport.
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Old 20 Oct 2020, 09:17 (Ref:4011622)   #923
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But the RFU is essentially broke?
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Old 20 Oct 2020, 09:47 (Ref:4011626)   #924
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But the RFU is essentially broke?
In 2018/19, their pre-investment profit was £115.4m. They invested £100.5m in Professional Rugby and Rugby development, leaving an operating profit of £14.9m, and an overall profit of £3.9m.

'Chief executive Bill Sweeney has revealed the perilous outlook that will see a £122million reduction in revenue for the forthcoming Autumn Nations Cup and £138million for the Six Nations.

The impact of these are losses of £46million and £60million respectively, forcing the world’s richest union to request a bailout.'



So they're not broke yet - but may be if Twickenham continues to be impacted. But what is clear is that the investment in Rugby definitely will decline.

I think the point being made though was that the governing body (in normal times) invests 90% of profit back into the sport, which is not seen in Motorsport. As a comparison from what I can tell, in 2017 Motorsport UK had an income of £7.7m, from which £34k was invested in Club support and £350k was invested as 'Development'. In the same year, £440k was spent on 'Committees' and £473k on 'Consultancy and professional services'.
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Old 20 Oct 2020, 10:31 (Ref:4011629)   #925
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It will be back. Slightly unfortunate for Goose again though as this is another event they run (for the RAC Club who own the run) on the back of the SC, Formula Student and Regent Street Motor Show cancellations.


Tricky time to be in the live events business and 2021 not shaping up to be much easier IMO.
The VCR could actually be the one that really helps Goose - the late cancellation means Goose's contract is not varied and they will be paid in full.

The entrants fees are forfeit
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