Interesting words...

[Super Tourer]

Some of you may recall that Renault has a new CEO, Carlos Ghosn.

He is not widely regarded as a motorsport fan and sceptical of it's merits to a manufacturer. It was believed and alleged that he wanted to see a direct link between what Renault F1 does on a Sunday and increased car sales, but since the recent performance of the team that sort of feeling has declined.

However, he has made some interesting comments recently.

"You see some people you know dumping $300m, $400m or $500m in Formula 1," he said. "It's a joke. The relationship between racing and boosting sales and boosting specific technology, frankly we don't find it.

If you are going racing, you have to have the chance of winning to bolster brand value. It cannot become something you do because you've always done it. I'm not sorry we don't participate. I'm sorry where we participate and don't get very much."

I think the message there is that while Renault are winning and delivering 'brand value', F1 will be something that he 'lives with' - clearly IF there is a down turn in fortunes - it will be an activity under close scrutiny.

It also begs the question that if a conglomerate like Renault see's little merit between racing and boosting sales or showcasing it's technology, how do others measure it?

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns14928.html

[climb]

Hard to judge.
Nonetheless if automobile companies have invested in motorsport ever since the watermelon there must be some good reasons somewhere.
it's also true, on the other hand, that the higher goes the investment required, the the stronger must be the demonstration of its convenience.


BTW for companies specialized in high performance cars like Ferrari, the effect on brand strnght is clearer than for mass production ones, like Renault.

[Super Tourer]

Originally Posted by climb

Hard to judge.
Nonetheless if automobile companies have invested in motorsport ever since the watermelon there must be some good reasons somewhere.
it's also true, on the other hand, that the higher goes the investment required, the the stronger must be the demonstration of its convenience.


BTW for companies specialized in high performance cars like Ferrari, the effect on brand strnght is clearer than for mass production ones, like Renault.

The flip side of this is that a small scale production company the size of Ferrari can't sell/make enough cars to fund a current F1 team, therefore as a stand alone operation it's not viable. Whereas a volume car maker has the resources and global marketplace to 'do' F1 in it's current guise - and even some of them are coughing at the costs.

[Kicking-back]

This is why it's vital to have Jordan, Minardi, and even McLaren and Williams around - racers who're there because they love it, rather than trying to sell you a Megane.

[Inigo Montoya]

Lets not forget about the team's technical partners - Shell, AMD, Intel, Michelin, Bridgestone, etc... They fork over large amounts of time and money to help out, and I wonder if they see an increase in resulting sales.

[chillibowl]

i must admit i don't know alot about the renault car lines, but surley F1, particularly now that there is a considerable effort to move into new markets, is what the manufacturer teams need to also enter these markets for the first time. again i dont know if renault sells cars in china, but if they don't, for most people in china/new market the first time they see a renault will be in a race. so if the company ever decides to sell cars in the new market awareness for their brand will already exist. thats money saved in the future.
on the other hand maybe renault just cares about the european market so for them this is not a real strong argument in favour of F1, but surley the other manufactures have larger dreams for increased market share.

[LampCord]

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

Lets not forget about the team's technical partners - Shell, AMD, Intel, Michelin, Bridgestone, etc... They fork over large amounts of time and money to help out, and I wonder if they see an increase in resulting sales.

I doubt Bridgestone is getting much of a bump in sales this year!

[LampCord]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i must admit i don't know alot about the renault car lines, but surley F1, particularly now that there is a considerable effort to move into new markets, is what the manufacturer teams need to also enter these markets for the first time. again i dont know if renault sells cars in china, but if they don't, for most people in china/new market the first time they see a renault will be in a race. so if the company ever decides to sell cars in the new market awareness for their brand will already exist. thats money saved in the future.
on the other hand maybe renault just cares about the european market so for them this is not a real strong argument in favour of F1, but surley the other manufactures have larger dreams for increased market share.

Oddly enough, they aren't even listed at Edmunds.com under new cars! Even cars as obscure as Ferrari and Lamborghini are. Not sure if they are even sold in the US. Seems that if you make cars, America is one of the markets you would target if you could.

I know they USED to sell them in the States. Not sure why they don't now.

[chillibowl]

welcome lampcord
was actually just looking at their website and using the drop down menu it seems like their are several big markets they dont compete in ie. us., china, india, but other than that they do seem to be pretty international maybe the comments were made based on renault's current situation in terms of advertising and branding and not about the future (which seems a little odd but i guess thats why he's a CEO of a multibillion comany and i am not)

http://www.renault.com/gb/transverse/site_map.htm

[Kirk]

The world is one large market place that seems to work in mysterious ways. Those words speak volumes as to the precarious state (whether real or imagined, who really knows) of F1 that relys so much on the large pockets of the wealthy manufacturers. Take just one of those away (such as Renault) and you have a gigantic void to fill, that could easily start a downward spiral. No wonder Bernie is so consumed with lowering costs. The Minardis/Jordan/Sauber teams are treasures to behold. Brings to mind that famous saying "Nothing lasts forever".

[andy_b]

The key thing here is if Renault can replace Mild Seven as a title sponsor when they 'baccy ban comes in. If Business F1 is to believed, there are no spaces left on the Renault at present

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally Posted by LampCord

I doubt Bridgestone is getting much of a bump in sales this year!

Welcome to the forum

Maybe not... but they have been no slouch up until this year

[Don K]

Originally Posted by LampCord

I doubt Bridgestone is getting much of a bump in sales this year!

I would think that the brand name "Bridgestone" is getting a lot *more* media attention this year than in previous years.

Which tends to be good for sales.

[santori]

Every second new car in South Africa is a Renault, Peugeot or Citroen.
(It'd be quite something if Renault won both F1 championships, Peugeot won the WRC constructors championship, and Citroen won the WRC driver's championship with Sebastien Loeb).

Perhaps the motorsport successes create an atmosphere in which other marketing is more successful.

[nkh]

Originally Posted by LampCord

Oddly enough, they aren't even listed at Edmunds.com under new cars! Even cars as obscure as Ferrari and Lamborghini are. Not sure if they are even sold in the US. Seems that if you make cars, America is one of the markets you would target if you could.

I know they USED to sell them in the States. Not sure why they don't now.

The US has some diffirent rules so they'd have to design their cars for that market too, instead of just doing it according to the European rules which also allows them to sell the cars in most other countries.
This is also why Alfa Romeo hasn't been in the US since '96 or so, but their new cars (159 and Brera) should comply to the US regulation so I assume they're on their way back.

[touringlegend]

I don't think F1 is a bad tool to promote with, there are just an awful lot of other avenues that manufacturers can go down to advertise their products nowadays.


Although, in some cases, it is scary what a car manufacturer will spend on a TV advertising campaign.

[andy_b]

Originally Posted by nkh

The US has some diffirent rules so they'd have to design their cars for that market too, instead of just doing it according to the European rules which also allows them to sell the cars in most other countries.
This is also why Alfa Romeo hasn't been in the US since '96 or so, but their new cars (159 and Brera) should comply to the US regulation so I assume they're on their way back.

Its the extra cost versus the sales and profit which decides if the likes of Peugeot or Alfa (both have been here) is viable. Canada is actually the hardest country in the world to get a car allowed to be sold (new)

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

Don't a few Renault models make it over to the US under the Nissan badge? Also I'm sure I heard James Allen mention once that Renault sales in Spain are up a significant amount.

F1 these days seems to be a tool with which to spin off other forms of advertising. I constantly see Toyota adds which use their F1 team as a way to convince people their engineers and designers are the best, same for Mercedes using their F1 connection to make the Smart car seem like a good buy.

Maybe it's not a case of "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" any more and a case of "win on Sunday and bombard people with adverts on Monday".

[andy_b]

No, not at the moment. Years ago Renault had an alliance with the old AMC company to produce the old 9 and 11 and 25 (as a saloon) in North America. That all went pete tong, pretty much helped kill AMC and their sister company Eagle who were swallowed up by Chrysler and dissapeared.

Its proved the win on Sunday, sell on Monday works, with tin tops (think DTM, BTCC, Aussie V8 and of course NASCAR) but to a lesser extent with F1. I suppose a premier brand like Ferrari and Mercedes do have this easier than a mainstream brand like Renault.

[GP Racer]

One of the biggest problems that some of the European manufacturers had trying to sell cars in North America, was the fact that they didn't have their own independent dealerships. For instance, when FIAT, Alfas and Peugots were sold here, a Cadillac or Ford dealer would pick them up as a side franchise. This led to salesman that didn't care or know the product, and mechanics that had no idea how to fix one. It was terrible way to try and sell a car and build a following.

I'm quite sure that Ferrari, and maybe Mercedes, and BMW benefit from being in F1, but I think a mass production company like Renault would do just as well marketing wise in a series that they can actually race the cars they build...

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by LampCord

I doubt Bridgestone is getting much of a bump in sales this year!

Bridgestone/Firestone sell a huge amount of tyres in the USA.

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Bridgestone/Firestone sell a huge amount of tyres in the USA.

More than true, but I think he was referring to their dismal performance this year...

[Raglanparade]

im getting two new bridgestones for my car next week..

Bridgestone 103 per tyre

Michelin 130 per tyre

I know which one im choosing

[Paarma]

I think the presence in F1 does not directly increase sales. Presence in F1 increases the profile and the value of the brand. Having a strong brand can increse and maintain sales, if the other factors are satisfactory to the customer, but you can't sell with brand alone. The brand merely increases your chances of success, as people will be familiar with you, and thus are more likely to accept you and your marketing-propaganda. I don't think anyone is naive enough to think they'll find F1-level of quality in their Megane, but the average consumer will prefer it over Skoda or Hyundai, if the deal is just as good otherwise.

[Logrence]

Nobody would use F1 to market anything in the States!

I always wonder about the reasons a car manufacturer has for promoting certain brands - Renault does not have a reputation for sporty or even fast cars in the same way that Ferrari, Mercedes or BMW have. I imagine at some point Nissan will be considered as a rebranding of the Renault team.