2008-2009 ALMS Rumors/Additions

[aeroehl]

P1
Acura stepping up to P1
Corvette Racing stepping up to P1
Forsythe enters with a Lola/Cosworth

P2
Primetime have stated they are interested in stepping up to P2

GT1
2nd Car for Bell Motorsports
Possible Lexus entry
Persistent Saleen rumors

GT2
BMW for 2009

[cmk]

The Primetime upgrade is probably going to be a 2010 thing from what has been said this year.

[prototype]

Corvette to P1? I haven't seen anything to substatiate that.

You could put the Saleen rumor down for GT2.

[Zurbert82]

There is a team that has an ex Oreca Saleen that may join the ALMS this year. Murphy has alluded to the GM LMP1 a couple of times in his latest blogs.

[The Badger]

Ive been hearing about that Saleen for ages , with a Rafanelli connection .... if he waits much longer , the car will be old hat !!!

[Dead-Eye]

Lexus GT1? With the Nürburgring LF-A entry (which could be close to GT2 spec for all we know) maybe GT2 is possible too?

[dj choc ice]

forsythe lola cosworth?

forgive my dumbness, anyone care to enlighten me?

i wanna see that one, is this the cosworth turbo engine we keep on hearing so much about that was meant to be in the soup kitchen courage LC70's?

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

forsythe lola cosworth?

forgive my dumbness, anyone care to enlighten me?

i wanna see that one, is this the cosworth turbo engine we keep on hearing so much about that was meant to be in the soup kitchen courage LC70's?

Yeah, sure. Don't worry about it, it's not going to happen.

[aeroehl]

Yeah, sure. Don't worry about it, it's not going to happen.

Marshall Pruitt, Robin Miller, and Murphy the Bear think it is going to happen.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by aeroehl

Marshall Pruitt, Robin Miller, and Murphy the Bear think it is going to happen.

More specifically, they were told that Forsythe would likely do it/would do it, by Forsythe team members. That doesn't mean they think it will happen, but they are reporting what they have heard.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Ive been hearing about that Saleen for ages , with a Rafanelli connection .... if he waits much longer , the car will be old hat !!!

Rafanelli wasn't/isn't "waiting." The funding for the project backed out. That story was current, and very much alive at Miller last season. Discussions were "advanced," and the source is/was someone very close to Raf. Subsequently it was delayed, then went away. Such stuff happens.

Similarly, the comment about the Forsythe story at Long Beach being sourced with Forsythe former and current team members is correct.

Murphy (and the others) is reporting that. Will it happen? Murphy doesn't know. He's just passing on (as is MP and RM) what's being said by some who are ostensibly close to the situation. (Murphy also tells me he has an additional indication/source it might happen - but that still doesn't mean it will.)

[deggis]

Originally Posted by prototype

Corvette to P1? I haven't seen anything to substatiate that.

From Mariantic long time ago: "GM looking at LMP1 Corvette and GT1 Cadillac XLR for 2009 ALMS - Autosport print ed."

Steve Wesoloski interview from October 2007:

"It's certainly one of the options that we're going to continue to look at very heavily; it's very intriguing to think...the possibility of taking an American car and winning overall at Le Mans is a very interesting opportunity.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...oski_interview

The rumours have some base but I personally very much doubt 2009. It's too soon.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by deggis

From Mariantic long time ago: "GM looking at LMP1 Corvette and GT1 Cadillac XLR for 2009 ALMS - Autosport print ed."

Steve Wesoloski interview from October 2007:

"It's certainly one of the options that we're going to continue to look at very heavily; it's very intriguing to think...the possibility of taking an American car and winning overall at Le Mans is a very interesting opportunity.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...oski_interview

The rumours have some base but I personally very much doubt 2009. It's too soon.

As of apprx. three months ago, GM killed the new OHC Cadillac V-8.
They were creating it for the same reason Ford created the new V-8 with much larger bore spacing, the old one was too small for many tasks.

If they will not fund Caddies much needed engine, I would say funding a Chevy powered car not related to street cars, that costs a LOT of money, is very, very slim at best.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

As of apprx. three months ago, GM killed the new OHC Cadillac V-8.
They were creating it for the same reason Ford created the new V-8 with much larger bore spacing, the old one was too small for many tasks.

If they will not fund Caddies much needed engine, I would say funding a Chevy powered car not related to street cars, that costs a LOT of money, is very, very slim at best.

The new Northstar was not killed due to funding but rather the new CAFE standards.

[dj4monie]

Acura will make the decision to move up only if they win the manufactures title in LMP2, which will prove they have what it take to not only beat Porsche, but Audi and "The Lion" and more than likely Toyota in 2010.

Pratt & Miller might move up to P1, but I doubt it will be based on the "Corvette" as you currently know it and that rendering is horrible! I believe it will be based on the LSX engine (427cid alum block) given the early success of Lola/Aston Martin LMP1 car, I think GM and P&M are smiling and will be grinning very wide if they pull off a victory in the face of multi-million dollar budgets.

They have more money and technical resources to exploit the "based on a production engine" rule, but they should seriously consider going to England or Italy for a chassis as we all know last time they went with an American based chassis company with NO EXPERIENCE running low down-force setups at places like Le Mans and Monza.

I'll continue to beat that "Forsythe" drum, why not?

Primetime is getting ahead of itself, they haven't even finished on the podium yet and they wanna run P2? That's laughable at best.

Second "what" for Bell Motorsports???

Another "barely used" DBR9????

How about starting with a better caliber of driver(s) first and then figure out what car to use. How come nobody bought Acemco's Saleens? Get the cars updated at Saleen's shops in California and have at it, the car is ONLY competitive... Pick up some Vantage V8 GT2's even...

Lexus LF-A GT racer is a reality and I think Lexus/Toyota will attack the European market with a DTM entry to be announced next season or later this season you mark my words. The LF-A will be ran with hybrid power I am sure and you'll see it at Le Mans I would say the ALMS as well.

BMW should be out on track testing pretty soon I would think... Any insider information on that??

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Pratt & Miller might move up to P1, but I doubt it will be based on the "Corvette" as you currently know it and that rendering is horrible! I believe it will be based on the LSX engine (427cid alum block) given the early success of Lola/Aston Martin LMP1 car, I think GM and P&M are smiling and will be grinning very wide if they pull off a victory in the face of multi-million dollar budgets.

They have more money and technical resources to exploit the "based on a production engine" rule, but they should seriously consider going to England or Italy for a chassis as we all know last time they went with an American based chassis company with NO EXPERIENCE running low down-force setups at places like Le Mans and Monza.

So your suggestion is that GM go with an "English or Italian" company, instead of Pratt and Miller? So P&M have no experience running cars at Monza or Le Mans? You don't believe that they have the knowledge or expertise to develop such a project? Why do you say that, and from where do you believe this project is getting it's push?

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

So your suggestion is that GM go with an "English or Italian" company, instead of Pratt and Miller? So P&M have no experience running cars at Monza or Le Mans? You don't believe that they have the knowledge or expertise to develop such a project? Why do you say that, and from where do you believe this project is getting it's push?

No I didn't say that, if I implied that I didn't mean too.

Now let's be serious; LMP1 and facing a "Lion" is a far different animal than generally racing against yourself. I would consider AMR lesser competition and they have solidly BEAT GM and Pratt & Miller several times STRAIGHT up without any help from IMSA or the ACO

Does P&M really expect themselves to be competitive with an AGING driver lineup and youngins (Awesome Lawson...) with NO big time racing experience of ANY sort? None of your current driver lineup has even been in a LMP1 other than Mags. Okay "The Frenchmen" and the "Italian" have done time in an uncompetitive F1 car(s) before, but still... and yes I know Max got "Madd" from is classic stint in the Momo Ferrari, but that was at least 10 years ago...

I didn't say P&M couldn't build a car, but they sure as hell better consult somebody that actually has built and designed a competitive car before. Also the old Corvette GTP was a Lola, I wouldn't be shocked if they went down that road again.

That's all I was saying really....

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Pratt & Miller might move up to P1, but I doubt it will be based on the "Corvette" as you currently know it and that rendering is horrible! I believe it will be based on the LSX engine (427cid alum block) given the early success of Lola/Aston Martin LMP1 car, I think GM and P&M are smiling and will be grinning very wide if they pull off a victory in the face of multi-million dollar budgets.

They have more money and technical resources to exploit the "based on a production engine" rule, but they should seriously consider going to England or Italy for a chassis as we all know last time they went with an American based chassis company with NO EXPERIENCE running low down-force setups at places like Le Mans and Monza.

That so called "rendering" of a Corvette P1 car was not done or athorized by GM. Some one at the ACO did that photochop.

P&M has lots of experience in all kinds of race cars and configurations.

[Dyson20]

Jan Magnussen drove a Panoz P1.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Now let's be serious; LMP1 and facing a "Lion" is a far different animal than generally racing against yourself. I would consider AMR lesser competition and they have solidly BEAT GM and Pratt & Miller several times STRAIGHT up without any help from IMSA or the ACO

I think you've vastly underestimated the capabilities of Prodrive, and ignored their experiences in WRC and F1, as well as success in sportscars. P&M is one of the most technologically advanced outfits in Sportscars, no matter what class you are talking about, and I fully believe they would be capable of campaigning a LMP1.

Does P&M really expect themselves to be competitive with an AGING driver lineup and youngins (Awesome Lawson...) with NO big time racing experience of ANY sort? None of your current driver lineup has even been in a LMP1 other than Mags. Okay "The Frenchmen" and the "Italian" have done time in an uncompetitive F1 car(s) before, but still... and yes I know Max got "Madd" from is classic stint in the Momo Ferrari, but that was at least 10 years ago...

Your definition of big time racing doesn't seem to include F1, LMP1, CART or Indy. Mine does. Is this lineup that much older than Pirro, McNish etc...?? Besides, currently having drivers that might or might not be appropriate for such a program isn't exactly all that important. If some of these drivers were viewed as not right for the program, it isn't like such a program wouldn't be funded well enough to hire drivers who were right.

I didn't say P&M couldn't build a car, but they sure as hell better consult somebody that actually has built and designed a competitive car before. Also the old Corvette GTP was a Lola, I wouldn't be shocked if they went down that road again.

That's all I was saying really....

P&M have designed many competitive cars. GM will not be looking at Lola, or others. This LMP1 direction is a push from P&M, not the other way around, so it will either be P&M or not at all.

------------------------------------

I think it is also feasible that you might see an Acura in GT next year.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Does P&M really expect themselves to be competitive with an AGING driver lineup and youngins (Awesome Lawson...) with NO big time racing experience of ANY sort? None of your current driver lineup has even been in a LMP1 other than Mags. Okay "The Frenchmen" and the "Italian" have done time in an uncompetitive F1 car(s) before, but still... and yes I know Max got "Madd" from is classic stint in the Momo Ferrari, but that was at least 10 years ago...

Johnny O' was Jan's teammate at Panoz. Corvette still has one of the best driver line ups in the business.

[cmk]

DJ, Olivier Beretta drove Oreca's Dallara Chrysler prototype (eg. at LM 2001) and Oliver Gavin got his sportscar break in Jon Field's Lola. Consequently all 4 main Corvette drivers have prototype experience in relatively modern cars. As Fogelhund says, that's neither here nor there anyway, but a little fact checking makes a case stronger.

Some of the stuff in your predictions is very heavily dependent on speculation - I'm not convinced that what you say about Acura's requirements has anything to do with the actual motivators that will see them make the jump to P1, for instance. The mutterings that make it to the public realm certainly don't suggest this (I recommend a careful reading of some of the bear's recent columns).

Nobody bought the ACEMCO cars becaue they were priced higher than the market could bear. That being said, I gather one has been sold to Europe now. One of the Oreca cars (better value now) may run in the ALMS, but there are lots of reasons why a GT1 program is a tough sell here (or anywhere) right now. There is a strong possibility of a second Aston for Bell, it seems. I don't know what the quotes around 'barely used' are for - that is true of Fux's car. The fact that it's in 2006 spec is the biggest problem with it. Why they need someone better than Terry in your opinion, I don't know. What they really need is better boots.

I think the basic potential of the Lexus LF-A is fairly obvious right now (Murphy alludes to that in his latest column too).

[prototype]

What does better boots mean?

I personally think Terry is a top flite driver.

[The Badger]

Better boots means ..... better tyres dude .

[WMUCarGuy]

Originally Posted by Dyson20

Jan Magnussen drove a Panoz P1.

So did Johnny O and Oli Beretta.