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Old 8 Feb 2018, 23:05 (Ref:3799727)   #31
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Old 8 Feb 2018, 23:47 (Ref:3799736)   #32
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mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Average Punter View Post
Flashing lights, double waved flags, LED panels.

When the driver is concentrating hard looking for grates and apexes and turn ins it's all irrelevant.

It's a dangerous joint and will stay that way.

Like Eau Rouge. And the Corkscrew, and Siberia, and Casino Square, and all of Monza......
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 00:06 (Ref:3799742)   #33
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TWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Average Punter View Post
Flashing lights, double waved flags, LED panels.

When the driver is concentrating hard looking for grates and apexes and turn ins it's all irrelevant.

It's a dangerous joint and will stay that way.

Like Eau Rouge. And the Corkscrew, and Siberia, and Casino Square, and all of Monza......
Always worth exploring a better way.

On Board Marshalling Systems would probably help
http://www.emmotorsport.com/portfoli...portorder=menu
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 00:28 (Ref:3799745)   #34
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Originally Posted by TWRv12 View Post
Always worth exploring a better way.

On Board Marshalling Systems would probably help
http://www.emmotorsport.com/portfoli...portorder=menu
Jamie whincup cant even read a fuel gauge at Bathurst or see a green flashing light
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 02:15 (Ref:3799759)   #35
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The suggestion of pushing back the inside wall, done by clearing trees, adding in a retaining wall and infilling the change in grade - would be the most beneficial to improve the drivers sight line out of Reid park into Sulman.

LED Lighting systems still require marshal operation and someone being in the right frame of mind to activate it appropriately - as opposed to standing mouth agape watching the accident play out. So there is still a chance to create error.

Put the immediacy of danger on the incoming drivers so they themselves can provide the appropriate reaction.
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 02:40 (Ref:3799762)   #36
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bludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
I cannot 100% confirm, but the current situation relies on a call from Race Control to allow the lights to function. When approach speeds are north of 200km/h, with almost no room to take evasive action, you tell me if this is good enough. It is also alleged that the lights are not very effective due to their design and postion, and are difficult to sight by the drivers.
For your first point, that is incorrect. There are about 4 or r5 flagppoints on the way up the hill, and a similar number on the way down (two seperate systems) that can all trigger the yellow lights without any interaction required from RC.

The lights are very similar to traffic lights, and are put in positions that the drivers eyeline will see them...dunno if they're effective though.


I saw a very interesting system being tested at Bathurst on the weekend, will see how long it takes before it is introduced
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 03:25 (Ref:3799771)   #37
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Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4 View Post
...I say again, how many THOUSANDS of laps, and HUNDREDS of drivers have passed through this section unscathed
EXactly, accidents are gonna happen no matter how safe or unsafe a track is.
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 13:05 (Ref:3799893)   #38
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Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4 View Post
The thing is...if you widen, and probably make it faster across the top...then you are likely to move the danger point to Skyline, The Dipper etc

Maybe modifying the brow at Reid Park or so could make the approach less "blind"...but really? A lot of people here seem to be overthinking this...I say again, how many THOUSANDS of laps, and HUNDREDS of drivers have passed through this section unscathed
Not widening the track, just moving the wall back to create some space so that it is possible for a car to come to rest off the track.

If the inside wall can be moved to open up the sight line for the drivers, that would be much better still rather than relying on signalling and drivers seeing and reacting properly to it. I am not sure how the geography would work for that but as they say anything is possible.

Sandgroper, so the answer is to do nothing? I don't think it is overstating things to say there could have been another death on that section of track last weekend if either driver was sitting on the other side of the car. I don't know about you but I'd rather not see that happen.
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 19:43 (Ref:3800064)   #39
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275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Maybe we need a sand trap?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi0xyE6XSSk

but this would be the safest solution...

https://www.tripadvisor.com.au/Locat...outh_Wale.html
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 19:53 (Ref:3800069)   #40
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with 11 seconds between original accident and secondary accident. One of two things happened. eitehr the driver ignored the flags and didnt take appropriate action or the flags did not convey the apporpriate message (there a few reasons that could have happened) Thus both of these things are not racing incidents, they are a failure of the current system. The system can be fixed without changing the track

With at least 3 significant incidents happened now all for the same two reasons they are two things they can be fixed and shoudl be fixed. Only a bad workplace would let them continue
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 22:17 (Ref:3800113)   #41
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275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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with 11 seconds between original accident and secondary accident. One of two things happened. eitehr the driver ignored the flags and didnt take appropriate action or the flags did not convey the apporpriate message (there a few reasons that could have happened) Thus both of these things are not racing incidents, they are a failure of the current system. The system can be fixed without changing the track

With at least 3 significant incidents happened now all for the same two reasons they are two things they can be fixed and shoudl be fixed. Only a bad workplace would let them continue
Sure...however, Motorsport has human participants and human officials...humans make mistakes and/or can perform below par...so if you want a perfect race environment get a field of driverless autonomous hybrid vehicles together...personally, I would rather watch paint dry or grass grow.

The dodgy (like that?!) video available appears to show a Flag Point slow to react as was Race Control (and that could have been a related communications issue)...but on the other hand, and for example,

I have been in a situation where there was a collision at Bathurst, I made (what I thought) was a prompt reaction including radio report, beautiful, full Yellow flag, waved just at the right speed to maximise visibility, leaning over the ARMCO, clearly visible to the approaching drivers and guess what? a scene similar to a Blues Brothers crashfest occurred...

On a scale of one to ten, this incident was about 5...the Merc took enough avoiding action so as to just clip the rear end of the stalled car, rather than T boning and possibly being a fatal. There have been 10 out of 10 incidents elsewhere on the track...so why are people rabbiting on about this one? Red Flagged race? or just bored and need to get out more
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 22:28 (Ref:3800118)   #42
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If the inside wall can be moved to open up the sight line for the drivers, that would be much better still rather than relying on signalling and drivers seeing and reacting properly to it. I am not sure how the geography would work for that but as they say anything is possible.
The wall used to be further back. It was moved inwards in 1999 for safety reasons, as part of a track upgrade

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Originally Posted by johnh875 View Post
I don't think it is overstating things to say there could have been another death on that section of track last weekend if either driver was sitting on the other side of the car. I don't know about you but I'd rather not see that happen.
Every little incident in motor racing could have had a worse outcome if one factor was a little different, what happened last weekend is not a special case.

It was a big crash, the drivers survived, the track is as safe as it has ever been. Why are we looking for issues with it?

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Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4
so why are people rabbiting on about this one? Red Flagged race? or just bored and need to get out more
Totally agree.

Making noise here for the sake of it.
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Old 15 Feb 2018, 01:15 (Ref:3801409)   #43
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The second crash was a signalling (or lack thereof) problem.

The time it will take before CAMS decides to make some improvements, will give you an idea on how long it'll take before they eventually implement something like a Code 60. Probably never.

In general terms, Supercars have been the main catalyst for changes in track safety, and the procedures around it, for the last little while. CAMS will continue to sit on their hands until they're forced to make a change. The only time they even look like they're being proactive, is when there's money to be made.
http://www.supercars.com/news/champi...arning-system/

Oh gee-whiz, would you look at that...

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Old 18 Feb 2018, 19:35 (Ref:3802225)   #44
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I'd have to agree with Woolley's suggestion in the 12 Hour thread of moving the outside wall back, together with using the right type of barrier, to reduce the chances of a car ending up stopped in the middle of the track.
Playing devil's advocate against my own post, no idea if it's possible, and it may be that it introduces other dangers such as angle of impact for the first incident.
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Old 18 Feb 2018, 20:54 (Ref:3802246)   #45
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Does anyone suggest that McPhillamy Park has been ruined by the addition of a sand trap area? Were there these suggestions at the time it was created?

I like the idea of a run-off area as it would drastically reduce the number of cars left stationary across the track
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