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Old 1 May 2010, 10:04 (Ref:2682611)   #26
Birddog07
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Birddog07 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
GT2 is no doubt the top GT class right now however.

I think part of why it may be 'struggling' is because manufactuers are gonna race the big races with their pro drivers (Le Mans and it's championships). If you are a privateer you'd better have some big money to compete with the big boys, or it just isn't worth it.

So, if you are a privateer then you buy a GT3 car (which is about the same price and performance of a GT2). They don't have some big manufactuer to compete against and all the cars are *supposed* to perform about the same which means they have as much of a chance to win as the next guy. And they can race in many different series. What are they going to do with a GT2 car, go to Le Mans and try and race the manufactuers with their pro drivers and added developments?

If current GT3 is made GT2, and current GT2 made GT1 (given alittle more HP/less weight, and possibly allowed race performance modified production engines, which should help develop the production engines), I think it'll be a very good playground for manufactuers and their funded teams races and develop their road-oriented (and even customer race) cars (but some cost controlling still needs to be in place).

Privateers can purchase and race their GT3 (GT2) cars without having to worry about sesonal development costs to an already expensive car, or having to pay a second pro driver. Costs on current GT3 upgrades need controled too, it shouldn't cost as much as it does for teams to stay up to modern spec.

I think it'll help both the manufactuer and the customer if you have the manufactuer and maybe some backed privateers racing and developing the (new) GT1 cars (which are very much the same as the customer cars), then for the next season the developments can be packaged and sold in a package to the customer GT2 (GT3) teams. Every few years a major customer upgrade/new car.

So now we can have the two new top classes of GT racing. Manufactuers racing and developing their cars, which can directly be fed into their road cars and customer race cars for privateers. The new GT2 can race a wide range of events/series alongside GT4 (GT3). Both new top classes can race at Le Mans and be happy.

Hope that made some sense.
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Old 1 May 2010, 10:51 (Ref:2682645)   #27
gucom
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gucom should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I see the point of GT2 being in danger... the problem is, there're now more and more manufacturers entering GT2 with a business model that's not based on selling racecars, but on winning the race to gain the publicity / bragging rights. That leads to escalating costs to remain competitive, crowding out the privateers. So the reduced number of GT2-eligible series and the increased manufacturer involvement increase each other's effects on the business model for porsche and ferrari.

In that respect, the GT1 WC has a valid point in trying to keep out factory teams; it's just a mistake to want this for the top GT class. I think a system like the one proposed by Birddog07 is the most realistic option... even though that would probably mean running the same basic cars in different classes, and a fairly strong level of performance equalization, neither of which I particularly like...

To me, having all the cars at an artificially equal level of performance would kinda beat the point of Le Mans: diverse, technology-based racing. But if performance development would still take place for the top class (current GT2) versions of those cars, I could actually very well live with that

However, having the same car (porsche, ferrari) race in multiple classes (current GT2 and GT3) has one major disadvantage: it makes the system less easy to understand for casual racing fans, and I think it's this group, that's much larger than us diehard fans, that's most important in terms of publicity value... More visual differentiation between current GT2 and GT3 would be the a possible solution here.

So yeah, all things considered, I think the system proposed by Birddog07 is actually the best middle road between what we'd all like to see, and what's realistic, that I've heard so far...
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Old 1 May 2010, 18:06 (Ref:2682802)   #28
Birddog07
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Birddog07 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Well, this 'new' GT1 would not have performance balancing, just manufactuers trying to develop the best racing car. Costs would need controled some, so we don't get manufactuers driving other manufactuers out due to cost, or it isn't more sensible money wise to run a prototype program which has less in common (atleast appearence wise, which to the everyday viewer, a GT2 means more to brand idenity than a 'silly looking prototype') to the road cars, but then again is racing for overall wins, and they still have a good amount to go into road cars.

So it'd come down to what the manufactuers want to do. Build/race a prototype and go for overalls and possibly sell their chasis/engine to LMP2 teams (the engine being a road engine for the 2011 rules and beyond), or go for top GT wins and develop parts directly to the road car while selling GT cars to teams and having more brand idenity for everyday viewers. I know when I watched my first ALMS (and sportscar/GT race) back in '99 on NBC (which is another point for series health, not eveyone has cable TV, have a few races on the networks to reach out more (but not some lame one week delayed 2h highlights of an epic 6h race at Laguna /CBS) I was thilled by the speeds of the prototypes, but I also said to myself 'hey, top sportscars going at it, this is way better than NASCRAP and it's good variety from open wheels (which was still CART in it's last glory days with different engines/chasis, which I loved)

This 'new' GT2 with current GT3 cars, I think car balancing would have to be worked in somehow, but really thought out and effective, GT1WC seems to possibly be getting performance balancing correct (well, not in Abu Dhabi), hopefully it'll be the same with this years GT3. It's either traditional performance balancing which isn't the most tecnologically spirted (why upgrade when the cars will just be 'balanced' anyways?) or in-season upgrades which brings extra costs to the privateers but it more tecnolgically spirted. In-season upgrades could maybe work, with manufactuers selling the 'new' GT2 teams a few upgrades every few races or so, directly from their possible GT1 cars, but they must be cheap for the privateers. Or possibly even some special customer upgrades introduced just before Le Mans.

As for visual differentiation between the classes, there will be alittle since the GT1 cars will be developing, and the GT2 cars will get some of those developments after the current season into the next pre-season testing. Some parts could be class specific, such as better wings/splitters, diveplanes, etc. For costs, their can't be to much differnece from the cars to keep almost the same cars running both classes. You might aswell see manufactuers who are just interested in a factory GT1 effort, or just interested in selling GT2/3 cars. Not all GT1 cars will have GT2 direct look alike, and vica versa. Manurfacters may also want to have their GT1 car, and then their customer cars as completley different cars. The ACO and IMSA's 'leader lights' system also works well aswell as running lights (the same color as the classes leader lights) for all cars, aswell as the numbers being the classes color and a visual LMPx/GTx located just above the number.

Once again, all this development not only keeps healthy competition on the track, but is directly applied to road cars (and track day GT4 cars that manufactuers may be interesting in selling).
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