Ferrari dismiss Stepney/McLaren suspend Coughlan

[davyboy]

This is surreal stuff. It'll likely overshadow Silverstone at the weekend... and muddy the waters for the man in the street. I can see the tabloids now "McLaren are where they are because they cheated against Ferrari".

[schead]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Maybe less so at McLaren and where they say its more of a team effort. Soon find out if thats true.

Seems a bit dumb to be caught red handed, when the whole farce in Italy kicked off over a week ago.

Did they work together at Arrows or Benetton?

Could FIA now be in play?

I don't see how the FIA could do anything. At the moment it is allegations, and any legal action could take years to prove, (if there is any substance to them). Look at the Toyota employees who nicked Ferrari data. What was it, 4 years to conclude? The FIA didn't intervene then, and they can't now.

[ss_collins]

they cheated against Ferrari

Well did they or not - McLaren is a very different car to Ferrari Technically.

I'd suggest look at Toyota and Renault more for using Ferrari data

[phoenix]

Maybe the info disclosed was how the Ferrari team were cheating the rear wing test...........................

[Robin_D]

Good luck to they guy, I hope to see him being very succesful at a new team in the near future.

[pottiella]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Maybe less so at McLaren and where they say its more of a team effort. Soon find out if thats true.

Seems a bit dumb to be caught red handed, when the whole farce in Italy kicked off over a week ago.

Did they work together at Arrows or Benetton?

Could FIA now be in play?

firstly, knowlesy is right, McLaren have a different design and development infrustructure that makes it more "teamlike", which is more formally called "the matrix" and its a structuring methodology that McLaren got criticised for after Adrian Newey left, with F1 boffins saying it was why they did so badly in 2006 and would go downhill, instead of having a technical "spearhead" like Ross Brawn for Ferrari and Pat Symonds at Renault.

secondly, it appears the Mclaren guy worked for Ferrari design and development at one stage, dunno if this is for F1 though...but I imagine Stepney and he would have crossed paths as a result. He did work for benetton as well...

The FIA are getting involved I think, because it's more than just allegations now seeing as though there is supposed hard evidence upon which the McLaren guy was suspended on. There's bound to be a lot of stuff, and much further development in this whole case than we are aware of, so it would be totally understandable something of this scale that even McLaren are effectively helping Ferrari with (which I imagine would not happen unless they were forced to by evidence of some degree), that the FIA would get involved by now.

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by phoenix

Maybe the info disclosed was how the Ferrari team were cheating the rear wing test...........................

Hope its something like that, rather than something bigger that would force the FIA to nobble McLaren and ruin both c'ships.

[pottiella]

surely neither McLaren or Ferrari could be penalised anyway, seeing as though it's about individuals allegedly working independently in secret? Else surely Ferrari would have brought the allegations against McLaren by now as well. I do hope that I'm right, as it'd be terrible for the sport...not that any of this is any good for it either.

[KevinS]

Originally Posted by phoenix

Maybe the info disclosed was how the Ferrari team were cheating the rear wing test...........................

I was wondering how long it would take before Ferrari would be turned into the bad guy in these events. I had hoped it would take at least until page 2.

I'm guessing it'll take til page 3 before Stepney and the Mc chap are made marters and will be honoured for their efforts in the crusade against Ferrari.

[pottiella]

Kevin, I think it was meant as a lighthearted joke...if you don't mind me saying so

[schead]

Originally Posted by pottiella

Kevin, I think it was meant as a lighthearted joke...if you don't mind me saying so

I don't think so. Lets face it, McLaren couldn't introduce any magical design from the F2007 because the design of the F2007 is utterly different to the design of the MP4/22. Therefore, what would work on the F2007, wouldn't work on the MP4/22.

What has happened around this time, however, is a whole new load test of 2000 newtons on the wing. IF there is any credence whatsoever to these allegations, it will almost certainly be that Stepney leaked documents to Mike detailing an area that was circumnavigating the regulations, (ie. the wing), which prompted McLaren, (or more specifically, Mike), to press the FIA for more stringent tests in the one area which he knew would hurt Ferrari.

However, I still think the whole thing is a setup to tarnish the name of Stepney, who took out an ad in autosport for his services, and Ferrari's main opposition. We will see, but what can be absolutely stated as 100% true, is that NOBODY is guilty right now.

[Woolley]

So McLaren may be fitted with Ferrari parts? I wonder how long before Spyker lodges a protest?

Seriously, shocking news, especially when the two alleged culprits are such senior employees.

[TWRv12]

Didn't Ferrari take a hit when the new floor test was introduced?

[schead]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Didn't Ferrari take a hit when the new floor test was introduced?

Sorry, yes I mean't floor test, not wing. They upped the load from 500 to 2000 newtons load on the floor test. This happened on May 3rd. (The documents were allegedly recieved by Mike in late April).

[schead]

Originally Posted by Woolley

So McLaren may be fitted with Ferrari parts? I wonder how long before Spyker lodges a protest?

Seriously, shocking news, especially when the two alleged culprits are such senior employees.

Interestingly enough, Spyker have already admitted to doing exactly what McLaren Mike is accused of. Spyker produced blueprints for the Torro Rosso that were "anonomously" sent to them by someone at Red Bull, to prove that the Toro Rosso was exactly the same as the Red Bull.

Legal action was threatened, but nothing materialised. It would appear that the only difference in this case is that Spyker admitted it.

[pottiella]

schead, you have an interesting argument there...and a plausable theory amongst many. The one thing that does strike me though is the vigour in which its' being targetted on Stepney; for which, guilty or otherwise, appears to be an opportunity grabbed by both hands by Ferrari to pretty much destroy Stepney for whatever reason he and they have really been at odds about from as further back as last year. Clearly he wasn't happy, and clearly they weren't happy. I don't mean this in a way of taking sides (as frankly its far too mysterious a situation for me to be able to begin to know exactly what's actually been happening), but it's just the sequence of events that demonstrate the way Ferrari are using their weight against an individual. For example, giving him a holiday in the middle of the season...only to THEN file a case while he's away...getting the warranty granted for his house to be searched while he's out the country? It's not a defence of Stepney as it is just me finding the manner in which it's been done a little chilling.

Who are we to comment anyway...

[Marbot]

Great news and such good timing...not!

The FIA will more than likely become involved,if only to take control of the situation with regards the media attention.At least Lewis will get a break.

[Davhut]

From across the pond this looks like huge news with accusations, legal actions, team actions and smells really stinky.
I suspect there is something to all this, although it may take years to come out, and if, in fact Ferrari are throwing s**t in the oven, then obvious signs there's trouble in red paradise.
Going through all these kind of things with King Geo. W. and the CIA/Libby affair make this an interesting and convoluted event to watch.
I love these intrigues!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by pottiella

Who are we to comment anyway...

Nothing wrong with a bit of 'free speech'.

And it wouldn't be the first time that an Italian car manufacturer has planted evidence in order to discredit another one (allegedly).

[strider]

To be honest, the whole thing is extraordinary, all the more so because of the people allegedly involved and the senior positions they held. I prefer not to comment further, because we have probably only seen the tip of the iceberg and, anway, the whole affair must be sub judice.

[andy_b]

wow! speechless. whatever next!

Who knows what happens next, but assuming the stories on Autosport (and others are correct),there are two scenarios
a) Mike recieved docs, open them and didn't alert the authorities or even Ferrari - its impossible to prove if he used the info to his advantage, unless he was the one who questioned a part of the Ferrari AND had that info to hand via the tech docs.
b) Mike recieved docs, opened them and DID alert the authorities or Ferrari which was the catalyst to

You would assume that if it were scenario B, he would have alerted McLaren as well.

Remember, Spyker recieved STR/Red Bull chassis drawings this year from a 'anon' source and held there hands up publicily that they had recieved such documents.

One thing I'm sure (and having known personally and worked for them) I don't believe for a minute that the directors would have known about this. Ron might have his haters, but IMHO integrity has never been at doubt. He's an absolute racer and no time for cheaters (before anyone mentions the brakes issue that had been previously cleared by the FiA). I believe this will have been one of the worst days in Ron's life. I really believe this is an individuals actions, given how much risk there is to McLaren

I suppose time will tell, but its a sad day for F1, McLaren and indeed Ferrari.

Sadly, I'm sure this story will develop even more

[pottiella]

you're absolutely right strider...on both accounts. It's nasty stuff nonetheless, marring the sport somewhat.

[Gt_R]

Unfortunate.

It's quite interesting to hear some opinions on this issue

Firstly, i don't believe it's just a case of Ferrari trying to set up an innocent Nigel. Let's face it, good as Nigel is, Ferrari had seen better people leave, and if Nigel had wanted to, i doubt Ferrari would be bothered to go to the extent of setting him up. It's even more ridiculous "vigour in which its' being targetted on Stepney" and "destroy". If Ferrari had much intention to destroy, they would have sent to every team a copy of information detailing how Nigel had done the team disservice, yet all Ferrari had done is to lodge an investigation, and kept relatively quiet in the media about what exactly Nigel has done. And you would think that if it's a Ferrari against Nigel thing, then why would they involve a Mclaren employee?

[Gt_R]

As for Mclaren, that they had received information would have meant it benefitted the team in some way, either directly improving their car, to understand their opponents, or to seek areas to obstruct their opponent by seeking protest to parts.

HOWEVER, we cannot blame Mclaren for what is essentially the lack of integrity of two individuals. Unless Ron himself had seen the things from Ferrari and did nothing to suspend that member, i think we should give Mclaren and Ron the benefit of doubt that they are not directly involved.

It's bad for the sports, definitely.

[Gt_R]

Nigel played a part in Ferrari's golden days, and hence i find little reason why would Ferrari reward him by setting up a completely innocent man.

There's 2 actions which Ferrari had persue, one through internal investigation which Ferrari had completed and took action (dismiss Nigel), and 2nd through the legal system.

I doubt much would come out from the 2nd action anytime soon, because of how slow the legal system moves in Italy. Still, i'm disappointed if it's true.

That he is granted leave, "gardening leave" and the process is to ensure that Nigel doesn't carry with him any updated detailed information of Ferrari to a rival team