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Old 1 Apr 2021, 14:21 (Ref:4044221)   #76
BertMk2
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Originally Posted by Alex Langheck View Post
It's just about good news. The sport had managed to keep the current manufacturers.
So, where are the rest? The ACO have played a blinder for the WEC, and have a strong list of manufacturers. Why couldn't the WRC Promoter do the same?

I thought there was a little too much back slapping yesterday at a job done well......
Agreed - if you look at WEC they've got manufacturers falling over themselves to get involved. GT3 has many manufacturers, TCR has a wide range, even in rally there are quite a lot of R5 cars available. So why is the WRC field so thin? Too expensive for too little return? Should WRC use the R5 cars as the top level ? (maybe with a hybrid system added)
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Old 1 Apr 2021, 16:46 (Ref:4044246)   #77
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Why point towards the promoters current failures regarding the number of manufacturers involved when there is a new regulation on the horizon? Sure, I am also disappointed in the lack of brands but the new regs are meant to attract new ones, and hopefully it does. But I'd rather hold on before making any judgements for the future, just as Adamo said himself. https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/adamo...n-three-years/ Or would you rather look back at the previous 5 years and make assumptions?

WEC only had one real manufacturer the last couple of years but now they have new regs and badges rejoin, WTCC died, WRX lost its manufacturers, GT3 arguably got the same concept as TCR which is relatively cheap cars privateers can or do run. Personally I find actual factory teams more interesting over satellite ones.

As for WRC, VW pulled out because of repercussions of Dieselgate and Citroen for their own failings essentially, neither down to costs. Promoter could've done nothing about these misfortunes I think, besides from maybe attracting more work-drives. But on the other hand the theoretical five would've been rather good in my opinion.
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Old 1 Apr 2021, 21:46 (Ref:4044288)   #78
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I think you're being far too generous to the Promoter; as a lot of people are. Their job is to make the WRC an interesting series, one that manufacturers want to join, one that fits their marketing, one that they can use to sell cars.

The ACO got their original hybrid regs wrong; far too expensive, and we were left with one. They've had a rethink, and they seem to have hit upon a formula that manufacturers think is relevant.

And both PSA & VW Group are planning to return to a global motorsport series; they've both chosen the WEC; Peugeot, Porsche & Audi....

And people are cheering because Toyota, Hyundai & M-Sport have all signed up - if M-Sport get proper Ford backing, then we'll have 3 full manufacturer entries. If the WRC can't attract more then there is a problem - one that people don't like the answer.
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Old 2 Apr 2021, 08:40 (Ref:4044332)   #79
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They make regulations in cooperation with the present manufacturers, just as the outgoing era. It's not the promoter and FIA alone making them. ACO had to do it for its own survival whereas this is a planned change and meant to attract manufacturers. Last 10 years we've also had two five-year regulations.

If they can't attract manufacturers it will be a frustrating fail for them, yes, but that would be obvious anyway when the plan is to get more. I'd rather be critical of future failures rather current shortcomings, especially since VW and Citroen abruptly left. The WEC factory entries aren't exactly new either, more or less just re-entered aside from Peugeot, which also competed some 10 years ago. Their WEC history is more than rooted with them and the affiliation is quite strong so it's only natural for them all to rejoin.

People are cheering because at least there will be a continued series in the present form, Hyundai might've been a goner after all. I still count M-Sport as a manufacturer, not like they lack know-how, certainly didn't in 2017 and 2018. Though I'd also want Ford in so it would be an official manufacturer instead of just a company name lining up with Toyota and Hyundai.
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Old 3 Apr 2021, 12:27 (Ref:4044463)   #80
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And that is the biggest issue, you do NOT make regs dependant on who is competing at the moment, you make them based on what might work to include, these people always namby pamby to the current, instead of being strong like Dorna did in MotoGP a few years ago and look at that now despite a rough period for a few years.

Doing what they have done maintains a status quo, nothing more and prevents others wanting to get involved, unless they do a Citroen in WTCC and test endlessly for a year before taking part, dominate for two years and effectively close the championship and achieve nothing whatsoever. That is what manufacturers historically do

If you listen to countless people, Grist, Mike Nick, they all say the same thing, WRC should be R5 and R5 plus. Nothing more, you would get massive entries everywhere. It is that simple, but that does not suit Toyota, Hyundai or Ford who do not have the best R5 cars.
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Old 3 Apr 2021, 13:10 (Ref:4044469)   #81
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Fair points.

If theoretically they did go R5 the cars would probably be a lot more top end than current ones as those are mostly for selling. At least then you would have some actual difference unlike the current supposed WRC-2 and WRC-3, lol.

Personally I think they stick to the cars they do because they are more interesting and spectacular than an R5. Current gen got some Group B-esque style to them with the aggressive aero and being the fastest rally cars ever. Safety, sustainability and costs were the three key points for the incoming gen, we'll see if it works out. I certainly hope so.

I've heard more people say this as well however, regarding tuning it down. I know one mechanic who worked for Toyota in the 90's. Some years ago he too thought going for "less" was better, suggesting Group N cars even.
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Old 6 Apr 2021, 08:51 (Ref:4044782)   #82
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I think holding the ACO up as the example is ironic, given how they're still trying to play with their new regs after what should have been the start of the season. Also, one of the reasons that the series is attractive to Porsche etc. is that they can use a car which will be eligible in other series (namely IMSA) and it opens up a bit more of a route for customer cars.

That luxury doesn't existing in the same way with rallying, because the top tier is so expensive to compete in. Sure they could make it cheaper, but then you lose some of the spectacle and if it doesn't bring in the fans then there's no point.

Fact is, the current gen WRC cars are some of the most exciting we've ever seen, if that doesn't get a fanbase then what's the point?
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Old 9 Apr 2021, 20:24 (Ref:4045351)   #83
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The issue is not with fans who tend to flock to most events, it is with the competitors. Entries are minimal and have been for many years. And the top class attracts say 6 to 8 decent cars and the rest a re pay drivers or nominal.

WRC has proven itself to be particularly awful at tv, unless there is local interest, otherwise people give it a look and come back next, year, so just drop it, they only do it because they manage somehow to sell rights to people, God knows how.

In the past you could run an IMpreza, Celica, Mk2, Chevette and set blinding times on stages and get picked up.

Now, all you can do is have a Finnish manager pushing you from the age of 10 to get there or be a famous son or daughter, that is not progress.

R5 is popular all over the world, meaning you could potentially rally in multiple areas at a world and regional level for world titles in theory.

You have R5+ for the manufacturers, who want to push and spend more money and maybe open that to hybrid aswell.

But manufacturers do NOT make a series, drivers, events, car number and variety do that in my eyes.
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Old 12 Apr 2021, 08:35 (Ref:4045665)   #84
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But manufacturers do NOT make a series, drivers, events, car number and variety do that in my eyes.
Very much this

Manufacturers have a history of turning up in a category, pushing costs up then leaving because it's too expensive. The problem at the moment is that the WR cars are too expensive for the vast majority of privateers so it's manufacturers or nothing.

What's better?

1) 10 WR cars from 3 manufacturers.
2) 20 R5 cars from 7 manufacturers.
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Old 12 Apr 2021, 15:20 (Ref:4045711)   #85
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Definitely option 2, been 20 years since we had something like that
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Old 22 Apr 2021, 13:01 (Ref:4047284)   #86
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Elfyn Evans tops shakedown sheets in Croatia. Probably doesn't say much over 2 minutes and 45 seconds. Hoping for a decent showing from Breen over the weekend.
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Old 22 Apr 2021, 13:14 (Ref:4047289)   #87
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Elfyn Evans tops shakedown sheets in Croatia. Probably doesn't say much over 2 minutes and 45 seconds. Hoping for a decent showing from Breen over the weekend.
Agreed, shakedown doesn't prove a lot - but from what I've seen of the other stages the roads look pretty good, hopefully it'll be a cracking event
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Old 23 Apr 2021, 08:49 (Ref:4047453)   #88
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Rovanpera has binned it on SS1 and Mikklesen has stopped with a technical problem (in WRC2) - lively start!
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Old 23 Apr 2021, 08:58 (Ref:4047455)   #89
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Very dirty roads there in Croatia. Also some damp sections this morning and that caught Rovanpera by surprise I think. Still huge mistake in a 6km stage... he has to learn a lot!

Breen is struggling not have driven a WRC Plus on tarmac stages by a while.


Note: Why they don't put onboard cameras like the old time? Really not liking this strange positioning they opted for
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Old 26 Apr 2021, 13:27 (Ref:4047912)   #90
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What a race ! Elfyn is a future champ for sure ! At least, when Seb stop his career
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Old 26 Apr 2021, 16:03 (Ref:4047933)   #91
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Very entertaining rally and bodes well for future rallies in Croatia. Seems like it was hard on the tyres at some points.

What a disaster for Neuville with Saturday's tyre choice. I just wonder what they were expecting to gain by that gamble. Overall, not as good as it could have been for the team especially considering the general good pace that Thierry had. Nice to see Breen do well on the power stage but he seemed outclassed throughout the rally. Tanak had a quiet one too.

Better in the Toyota camp with Seb's win but have to say, I'm gutted for Evans to lose it by the slimmest of margins. Great drive from Katsuta also but Rovenpera will be mulling his costly error before the next event.

Also a nod to M-Sport for a good showing, particularly Fourmaux on his debut. Surely a star of the future. Greensmith also showed flashes of good pace over the weekend so it will be interesting to see if he can build on it throughout the season.

WRC2 saw a few mechanical glitches feed in for the drivers too but was generally uneventful after Gryazin dropped off.
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Old 27 Apr 2021, 08:05 (Ref:4048036)   #92
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Definitely an entertaining rally! I'll leave debating the incident on Sunday morning, but a fantastic recovery from Ogier. He seems to manage situations that would fluster others incredibly well.

Gutted for Evans but, sorry to say it, I think the best man won.

Very impressed by Fourmaux as well. Not the first time he has driven the car, but the first time at this level and I thought he delivered a good result.
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Old 2 May 2021, 19:28 (Ref:4049266)   #93
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...
Very impressed by Fourmaux as well. Not the first time he has driven the car, but the first time at this level and I thought he delivered a good result.
Likewise, it will be interesting to see how he goes on gravel (if he has gravel outings planned); I got excited about another French talent some years ago (Camille) but it didn't really seem to go anywhere. He too had some serious pace on tarmac. To be fair to Camille, he only had a season in the top flight as far as I remember, I guess that's not enough really to learn gravel and show what you can really do once you've got experience.
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Old 3 May 2021, 09:12 (Ref:4049351)   #94
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That was a great event and Fourmaux certainty entertained us. Let's hope this isn't a flash in the pan and he can do this on other events too

And Evans really isn't letting the disappointment of losing the title last year get to him. He really made Ogier work for that
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Old 4 May 2021, 14:10 (Ref:4049629)   #95
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Likewise, it will be interesting to see how he goes on gravel (if he has gravel outings planned); I got excited about another French talent some years ago (Camille) but it didn't really seem to go anywhere. He too had some serious pace on tarmac. To be fair to Camille, he only had a season in the top flight as far as I remember, I guess that's not enough really to learn gravel and show what you can really do once you've got experience.

did you think of Eric Camilli ? This year, he will drive for Citroen on a C3 Rally2 for at least 3 races : Monte Carlo, Portugal, Spain in WRC2
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Old 8 May 2021, 22:28 (Ref:4050412)   #96
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did you think of Eric Camilli ? This year, he will drive for Citroen on a C3 Rally2 for at least 3 races : Monte Carlo, Portugal, Spain in WRC2
Yes, I was thinking of Camilli. Apologies for misspelling his name.
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Old 11 May 2021, 12:02 (Ref:4051027)   #97
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Former footballer/manager Andreas Villas Boas has a one off drive in the upcoming Rally Portugal. He’s got experience of rallying having competed in the Dakar rally. Not the first footballer to try rallying, after all a certain Greavsie competed in the one off World Cup rally in 1970
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Old 21 May 2021, 22:50 (Ref:4052630)   #98
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Interesting shape going into the weekend. Sordo is on good form, it's just a shame he stalled it at the hairpin towards the end of the day. Hopefully this doesn't wreck his momentum even though he's lost the lead. Hyundais are looking stronger than Toyota so far but Thierry's accident was an unfortunate blow to an otherwise steady run. Evans is in a good position to pick up good points for Toyota if he keeps up the pace over the weekend. However, can somebody explain to me the ruling behind nominal stage times? After Evans got stuck in Thierry's dust he was given a "nominal" stage time. I've heard of this being used many times before but, in this case, Evans' given time was the same as the stage winner (Ogier). How is this determined? I could understand some average time being allocated but I was surprised that he got an equal best stage time. This, in turn, contributed greatly to his overall rally position.

On another note, M-Sport are having another good run on the back of Croatia. It's good to see them seemingly improve even if both drivers had a mishap over the course of the day. Could be a good points haul for the team if they both keep it together and Greensmith may even clinch a maiden stage win if he keeps his form up.

Hard to hedge a bet on a winner. I'd put my money on Sordo on sheer pace and form but it's hard to tell if he'll keep out of trouble. If he suffers some accident or mechanical issue I can imagine Tanak will be waiting in the wings.
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Old 22 May 2021, 22:57 (Ref:4052783)   #99
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Bad luck for Tanak. Did he hit something or was it a component failure in the suspension? Either way, such a shame after a stellar day. Evans is looking in good shape for the win if he stays out of trouble though Sordo still has an outside chance of pipping him. Would be great to see Katsuta get his maiden podium and that'll be the fight to watch tomorrow.
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Old 27 May 2021, 18:54 (Ref:4053585)   #100
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Great win for Evans, fast, consistent and stayed out of trouble and very humble regarding Tanak's misfortune.
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