formula first

[Tim Hall]

Recently I was lucky enough to drive a formula first at Silverstone.I would like to know more about formula first, do they still race,what is the engine spec and where would I find a car.They must be about because just about every drive school uses them and hopefully there is some sort of club race series.

[Ian Sowman]

There's no dedicated series for them now. They may be eligible for the new Lydden-based single-seater series, but I'm not sure about anything else off the top of my head. Having said that I think the school at Silverstone use them in their races.

If you're looking to get involved in racing, I'd take a look at FF1600 and in particular the excellent championship at Castle Combe, not too far from you.

[Muppet]

I think they got lumped in with the old Vauxhall Juniors in a "Formula Libre" type championship.

[Ian Sowman]

Muppet

You're right, but that died a very sudden death. It was merged with F Honda last year but only one other car ever came out. I think that F Honda this year is just for bike-engined cars, but I've not heard anything 'official' to that effect.

[Tim Hall]

so basically the cars are obsolete and the driving schools use them because they are probably cheap to run with what I quess is a fairly basic ford unit.What was that unit,just a basic single overhead cam or earlier and who made the chassis, spares must be available for the cars that are running.Its a crazy obsession I have for the cars I know,quite a few years ago I worked for Allard turbochargers designing turbo systems and later went out to Australia and worked on the turbo's for the cosworths that raced at Bathhurst.The drive at Silverstone re kindled an old passion and I would love to get hold of one of the firsts to modify or something as a hobby.

[DSM]

Last year, and this too, possibly, they could be run in the BRSCC Single Seater series, most of which is F Honda.As you say Ian, last year only one car came out, once to run with the Hondas, and that was an R1 engined Jedi. No car engine based cars came out at all. On another front, a Formula First would not be competitive amongst the Hondas. Why not try a Formula Honda, Tim?

[littleman]

The Ford engine used came out of the old XR2 Fiesta from the 1980's.The chassis was made by Van Dieman.Mark Burdett Motorsport was the most successful team in it's day so why not give Mark a ring.You can get his number from his web site www.burdettmotorsport.co.uk.

[Tim Hall]

so DSM can you give me any more information on formula Honda,I quess they run bike engines.How is the series run,it sounds quite serious and were can I get more information and prices on cars etc

[DSM]

FH runs the Jedi chassis with CBR600 engines. About 100 or so bhp with all up weight of 385kg. Top speed is around 120mph but with slicks and wings grip is good and it's a very well balanced little car. Usually only tenths off FF zetec times except at somewhere like Snetterton, several seconds quicker than Zip and older 1600 FV, FF etc. Very adjustable and responsive chassis and the engines can be picked up and tuned for under a grand.
Very easy to run as an individual and one of the cheapest Formulae around. last year average grids were around 14, 19 at best. This year look like being better because of general lack of money in sport and also opening up new class for 1000cc cars, which will have 'Blade engines.
Full info from John Corbyn at Jedi, 01933 440774. He will also arrange tests from 350 pounds (Sorry no pound sign) and has the odd car for sale.

[DSM]

Further, the series is great fun to take part in but serious as well. Last year there was some good fast racing (and some boring runaways like every other formula), little stupidity or aggravation, and it's a great formula for the seious racer with no money, the beginner or the older thrill seeker alike.
Just to confirm some times, these are actual fastest laps from various races held last year:

Oulton fosters: FH 62.6s; Zip 65.67; ARP F3 59.69;
Brands Indy: FH 48.7; Zetec 48.92; Zip 51.69;
Mallory: FH 46.69; Zip 49.85; ARP F3 44.07; Jedi 1000 45.38

[Tim Hall]

I quess the Honda engines are that much lighter than the dated ford engine with a bit more power. Maybe my quest to find a formula first and race it endeth here.Modern technology, the old XR2 engine was a big thing in its day,easy and cheap to tune,a concept in the 80's with the RS1600 Turbo out in front of many.
Managed to find some info on formula Honda on the net,the chassis look pretty mean ( and expensive ) with the wings and things.One thing I don't here anybody mention here is formula V or does that speak for itself?

[Ian Sowman]

If you're really set on a Formula First, then I'm sure there must be one out there that you can buy and race.

You mention Formula Vee though - an excellent series organised by the 750MC. Lap times are broadly similar to FFirst from memory, and what is more some tidy looking new cars are starting to filter into the Championship. Big grids, relatively low cost and close racing. It would be great fun if you were to get involved. I don't know so much on the technical side, maybe someone here can fill those in. If not, try www.750mc.co.uk

[Tim Hall]

I have e-mailed Mike Burdett on Littleman's advice,maybe he will know of any knocking around,formula firsts that is. With all the ones around at racing circuit schools I'm sure there is one with my name on it.The ford engine is a world I know,as for japanese multi's, that used to be for two wheels only.

[DSM]

Don't llet me put you off a F first but who are you going to race against. As for the 'Japanese multi's' they are works of art! Tiny little pistons, 14000rpm (even sound like a racing car should) and very cheap and easy to maintain. As I said earlier you can pick up used ones (unfortunately, normally from wrecked bikes) for no more than 700 and have them race ready for another 300 or so.
I understand how you would feel more at home with the ford but you'll need to be in there a sight more often too!
I think the best advice would be to try all 3 (FF, FH and FV) before you decide.
I'd be interested to now what a Firt, in race condition, might cost, and a VEE? The Honda would be about 7.5K for a 3 year old ready to go to about 15K new.

[DSM]

I meant First not Firt!!

[woodyracing]

you can pick up Formula Vee cars very cheaply (compared), ive seen a 2001 model with trailer sell for 5k. And some older cars are as little as 3k. I think they are about 8k new.
Entry fees for 750mc are only about £120 per race, i think BRSCC are about £175. Also the treaded tyres used in Vee are probably going to be cheaper than slicks.

[woodyracing]

personally, i wouldn't go for Formula First, there's virtually nowhere to race them.

[Tim Hall]

It would be abit of a shame to have a formula first,get it running nicely and have know where to run it. Thanks everyone for your help,this explains why there is nothing on the net about firsts and a lot more about Honda and V's. I will go out and have a look at the other two formula's and go from there. This explains why the firsts are at the racing schools as this is the only place left bar the scrap heap.

[verglas]

Tim, I am a little unsure about what you intend to actually do with a F First if and when you get one..Are you intending to race or just drive at test days/circuit days, or are you interested in sprints and hillclimbs perhaps. If the latter is of interest there is a class for F Firsts in the BARC CCC Speed Championship, mind you they are amalgamated with FF1600 cars. Check out http://www.barc.net for further info. Hope you find this useful.

[John Clucas]

Don't forget FF1600 either. They are very plentiful, with lots of opportunities to race them (even decent prize money at some places). The treaded tyres make them much much cheaper to run than Zetecs. The marque is much more stable than FH (in particular), which may be important when you come to sell.
The racing is, at it's best, is as good as anything you'll see (and far better than almost all the more sexy prestige classes).
I'd make similar comments about Caterhams too - if you're not wedded to single seaters.

[Andy Roberts]

Tim. If your after a FHonda for this season then give me a call. I am selling mine that finished 2nd in the championship as I am hoping to be racing in the states this year. My number is 07966 494583 and there are some photos on www.andyroberts.uk.com

[Lola]

You could enter a Formula first in the Monoposto Championship

[av8rirl]

Personally I'd recommend F Vee or FF1600. Both have plenty of cars around for little money and both have large grids. FFirst is a bit of a dead duck. No real club series unless you want to do hillclimbs or sprints (or maybe monoposto).

I have raced F Vee in Ireland and the UK. The drivers consist of experienced hard to beat veterans, up and coming youngsters (this year there were two that came back down from UK F Renault), thoses looking for a bit of a race thrill and every other sort that you will meet. Secondhand cars can be had for as little as GBP£3k. A set of tyres can last 4-5 races (depending on how hard you are on tyres). Repairs are cheap. The entry fees range from around GBP£110 to GBP£170 (Donington). Help is always available (F Vee are the friendliest in the paddock) and people will loan you equipment to get out for race qualifying (if you are unfortunate enough to do damage in qualifying/testing). All in all it is a great class to start in. Most rounds have a two qualifying sessions, a qualifying race and a final. So potentially you can get two races for one race entry fee (or four races at a double header).

You can check out UK F Vee at the following sites:
www.formulavee.co.uk
www.leastone-racing.com
www.vwracing.net
www.750mc.co.uk

FF1600 is thankfully having a bit of a resurgence. Cars are built by the likes of Van Diemen, Swift, Ray, Mondiale, etc... Tyres are not slicks and last for a few races (someone else can give you the exact details). Looks like you could pick up a FF1600 from about GBP£6k.

The one thing that I can't stress enough about buying a car: make sure that you have someone elses advice that knows the history of the car. Too many people end up getting stuck with a championship winning car (according to the seller) that is just a minger. Happens in all classes unless you know the class. Let me know if you need more info...

[Tim Hall]

Thanks very much for all the information,I now have a lot more to consider and formula first is no longer of interest.Now to go and have a look!!!!!!!!!

[Lola]

I see you are from Gloucester Tim. Many of the Monoposto Championship drivers and officials come from that area. Get in touch as there will be many many people willing to lend advice.

www.monoposto.freeserve.co.uk