2014 grid?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by bella

sorry, but if he was to go back and talk to drivers who rejected him then surely his first stop would be frijns?

Liking your thinking!

Who was it that suggested Button and Perez were similar drivers a few posts back, m355y perhaps?

They couldn't be further from being similar!!

Button is smooth and (mostly) too cautious with what I consider to be very little in the way of seat of the pants ability, whereas Perez is anything but cautious and very, very seat of the pants 'able'

Their drivers are only looking like parity at time because one is really starting to look over the hill with only a few races of pace in him, and the other is still on an upward learning curve but with inherent basic speed.

As for Nasr, I like the thought of him and Bianchi driving at Sauber, or Force Jalfrezi (FI are definitely well beyond Korma level now) if the Russian thing doesn't come off?

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

I'm sure the Russian thing will come off.

Button and Perez are both smooth and light on the tyres. It's just that between them they have 1 pair of working eyes, and neither are on Perez...

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

I'm sure the Russian thing will come off.

Button and Perez are both smooth and light on the tyres. It's just that between them they have 1 pair of working eyes, and neither are on Perez...

Perez was smooth and light on tyres last year, this year his car comparatively has been slower so he has had to drive like crazy to make up for it...

In the past, Button often has been unable to get enough heat into his tyres because he hasn't been confident enough to be as aggressive as needed. He did well when races came to him, but more often than not they haven't come to him and he's been left languishing.

At the risk of going over old ground.

[m355y]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Liking your thinking!

Who was it that suggested Button and Perez were similar drivers a few posts back, m355y perhaps?

They couldn't be further from being similar!!

Button is smooth and (mostly) too cautious with what I consider to be very little in the way of seat of the pants ability, whereas Perez is anything but cautious and very, very seat of the pants 'able'

Their drivers are only looking like parity at time because one is really starting to look over the hill with only a few races of pace in him, and the other is still on an upward learning curve but with inherent basic speed.

As for Nasr, I like the thought of him and Bianchi driving at Sauber, or Force Jalfrezi (FI are definitely well beyond Korma level now) if the Russian thing doesn't come off?

Disagree, at least to a degree. The difference between them is Button's caution vs Perez's aggression in wheel to wheel battles. Perez also makes more mistakes, and is better at heating up his tyres and equally good at making them last. So he has a lot going for him. But if you're talking basic driving style then they're not a million miles apart at all. And I doubt Perez has much more raw pace than Button. He lacks qualifying pace, often edged by Kobayashi and then again by Button this season. Suggestions are that he's lacking that final 1% raw 'seat of the pants' natural ability as much as Jenson and his qualifying record bears that out.

[davyboy]

I think Chunterer's analysis is fairly close to mark here.

Button has finesse but is lacking outright speed. Perez has speed and isn't afraid to use it. He needs finesse though. As somebody once said before, it's possible to make a fast driver smooth but not to make a smooth driver fast.

I don't think they're happy with either driver, but their biggest problem's the car. The question they're facing is which one of Button or Perez are on an upward trajectory to capitalize on a much better 2014 car ?

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by davyboy

I don't think they're happy with either driver, but their biggest problem's the car. The question they're facing is which one of Button or Perez are on an upward trajectory to capitalize on a much better 2014 car ?

Uhn... a hard question.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by davyboy

The question they're facing is which one of Button or Perez are on an upward trajectory to capitalize on a much better 2014 car ?

Two things. 1) Will the McLaren actually be good? 2) Neither are really going up...

[ace007]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Two things. 1) Will the McLaren actually be good? 2) Neither are really going up...

The McLaren has been off the pace since a while bu Hamilton was always extracting 110% of the package. Button can only save the day if it is wet. Sorry to say but Button's days are counted. They should really consider Kimi to bring the car forward with Perez.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

You guys do realise Button sacrifices qually pace for race pace. At least he has done in recent years. It's why it quite literally took him years to get the McLaren onto pole, but realistically, was anyone ever going to stop him at Spa?

And Button saving the day when it's wet surely doesn't mean he isn't talented. He is the best driver in the wet. Like it or not he was almost always 3rd to the Ferraris in his early days, took the 2009 WDC and outscored Hamilton in their 3 years together. The only thing stopping him this season is the car, and nobody will know if he could've got a podium at Malaysia this season, considering how much the leading quartet were cruising.

If anyone has any complaints about my comment, this is all fact.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

You guys do realise Button sacrifices qually pace for race pace. At least he has done in recent years.

Sorry I don't buy that. I've lost count of the number of times hes appeared exasperated after an abismal qualifying session rueing what's ahead of him on Sunday. I believe he tries his utmost in qualifying and the race but needs the stars to be aligned in order to deliver a strong result. For sure if he had a fantastic car, he'd do better, but then who wouldn't ?

[Eff One]

Originally Posted by Bononi

...or Jacques Villeneuve.

Now you're talkin'!

[m355y]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

You guys do realise Button sacrifices qually pace for race pace. At least he has done in recent years. It's why it quite literally took him years to get the McLaren onto pole, but realistically, was anyone ever going to stop him at Spa?

And Button saving the day when it's wet surely doesn't mean he isn't talented. He is the best driver in the wet. Like it or not he was almost always 3rd to the Ferraris in his early days, took the 2009 WDC and outscored Hamilton in their 3 years together. The only thing stopping him this season is the car, and nobody will know if he could've got a podium at Malaysia this season, considering how much the leading quartet were cruising.

If anyone has any complaints about my comment, this is all fact.

That bit's not. I like Button and think he's a great driver - 15 wins and a World Chsmpionship, some great times over the years. Not the quickest over a single quali lap and lacking a bit of aggression to get heat into his tyres but a feisty, clean racer and unstoppable on his day. Bit to say he was always third behind the Ferraris? Once, in 2004. The other years up to his Championship, nowhere close.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

What I still fail to understand is how Gutierrez hasn't been axed already. 0 points, only 2 races where they might've come in 11 races, whereas the Hulk already has 7 and has occasionally run well within the top 10. Considering China's point could've been a lot more if it wasn't for the disastrous pit stop for the Hulk, and Telmex have left, I think Gutierrez' days are numbered.

[chunterer]

Since when has Button been the best in the wet, he made a couple of canny (or lucky) tyre choices which aided him in at least 2 of his 'epic' wins?

I've always thought Alonso, or even Lewis are the current reinmeisters?

I think that with at least a couple of the current 'pay drivers' whilst one or two of them are actually very good, i'm sure the others would be replace in a flash if a big name became available with a massive sponsor aiding their cause?

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

I'm pretty certain that driving 1.5s faster than Sebastian Vettel (in a better car) on older tyres in the damp Canadian GP in a damaged car is pretty impressive. Because of the amount of amazing tyre choices Button has made, I don't think it's luck.

Anyway, moving on...

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

What I still fail to understand is how Gutierrez hasn't been axed already. 0 points, only 2 races where they might've come in 11 races, whereas the Hulk already has 7 and has occasionally run well within the top 10. Considering China's point could've been a lot more if it wasn't for the disastrous pit stop for the Hulk, and Telmex have left, I think Gutierrez' days are numbered.

There's not much to understand.

Money. That's all there is to it.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by Thaw Daggerslash

There's not much to understand.

Money. That's all there is to it.

But Telmex (Gutierrez's money pot) have left Sauber, and Gutierrez has been outfinished by the Hulk 100% of the time when they've both finished, so I really don't see why they don't just shove Frijns in that car.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

I'm pretty certain that driving 1.5s faster than Sebastian Vettel (in a better car) on older tyres in the damp Canadian GP in a damaged car is pretty impressive. Because of the amount of amazing tyre choices Button has made, I don't think it's luck.

Anyway, moving on...

Unfortunately those kinds of performances, including his first win, are few and far between and rely on the alignment of circumstances that favour him.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109615

Sutil isn't confirmed as of yet, could this be Calado's chance?

[BSchneiderFan]

Ricciardo confirmed at RBR.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Yep, the already-confirmed-but-for-some-reason-still-unofficial news is official, everyone.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109615

Sutil isn't confirmed as of yet, could this be Calado's chance?

If he can drag along a sack of cash bigger than Sutils, the seats his.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Yep, the already-confirmed-but-for-some-reason-still-unofficial news is official, everyone.

So they did not wait for Monza..... No wonder Kimi said he was bewildered by their attitude at Spa... Silly (season) games

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

So they did not wait for Monza..... No wonder Kimi said he was bewildered by their attitude at Spa... Silly (season) games

EJ called it right once again...

[ace007]

Hulk at Ferrari next announcement?