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Old 19 Jan 2019, 11:01 (Ref:3877167)   #26
zefarelly
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I remember chatting to Nick Stagg some years ago at Spa when he'd recently built the Escorts for himself, Kerry Michael and Pantelis Christophoru ( sp?) He was saying they're great, quick etc but more rigid/precise than the Cortinas for various, mostly obvious reasons, so not as much fun as you don't chuck them about and slide all over the place in the same way . . . . a few years later he'd sold the Escort and built another Cortina. . . .

I've said it before, 100 times, but there's nothing in U2TC that resembles anything that race when it first started in 2007, let alone 1965.


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Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post
As you say Peter, we even seem to have different ‘tiers’ of preparers nowadays. From modern Pro teams at the top, then traditional historic ‘multi’ preparers, through to owner / driver / builders at the bottom of the ladder....

Gerard, I’ve never had the privilege to race a Cortina. Only saloons have been Escorts. They’re just about OK
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Old 21 Jan 2019, 09:28 (Ref:3877468)   #27
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I've just been told that an acquaintance has purchased a TISA and is talking to Masters and Motor Racing Legends about appropriate series.

I din't ask but could it be the ex Jackie Oliver car?
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Old 21 Jan 2019, 09:31 (Ref:3877471)   #28
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I've just been told that an acquaintance has purchased a TISA and is talking to Masters and Motor Racing Legends about appropriate series.

I din't ask but could it be the ex Jackie Oliver car?
The preparers of the JO car built and ran several, including ‘hire’ cars and one the Boss raced. So no idea!
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Old 21 Jan 2019, 10:06 (Ref:3877474)   #29
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Could it be either this one
https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/De...-bmw-1800-tisa
or this one
https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/De...k-race-car---5
From what I've been told one ex-mechanic of Laranca is still in the business, selling parts and so on. Never saw the "ding dong" car advertised anywhere.
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Old 21 Jan 2019, 10:53 (Ref:3877485)   #30
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Possibly the "24k one then. Not sure he wanted to run to over "100k.
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Old 21 Jan 2019, 10:53 (Ref:3877486)   #31
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Hi there, I don't post very often as I don't know much about anything really, but as a former U2TC competitor (yes in a Cortina) from 2009 to 2012, then a team member for other competitors in the series, until 2015, here are my comments re the decline in entry numbers.

Pre 2010, guys like K-D Anton, Bo Warminius, the Gustavssons & others could run cars competitively as privateers along with the 'pros' like Furiani , Shaw, Swift, Wolfe, etc & there was a good balance of pro / am competitors.

That progressively changed as more pro supported entrants came in, which is quite normal, since the series is composed of cars that raced together in period in the top Saloon car series - ETCC & the racing was really close, & people wanted to be a part of it.

Development of cars got more & more serious (& expensive) until we end up with cars built to such a high level in terms of chassis, weight distribution, damping , engine power etc. not helped by the 'relaxing' of interpretation of certain rules, which meant that Cortinas could run enormous frt roll bars, just to quote one example among other things. Cams, which are free in the rules - as in period - is another area that has contributed to power increases for everyone.

The net result was costs spiraled & in the main, the private guys, like me & others just couldn't keep up, so left or were not competitive ; the exception until this year being the Letts brothers who with one mechanic, & doing all the work themselves, managed to keep in the top 6 on a regular basis.

Resulting grid sizes went down (even some of the fully works supported drivers stopped showing up, as they wanted to win but couldn't !!!

This lead to reduced opportunites for Carol to get races at meetings & despite her efforts & enthusiasm, now she has lost out at The Silverstone Classic.

To me, the only way a real U2TC - ETCC rebirth can happen is if the FIA were to sanction & support such an initiative and supply meaningful comprehensive 'modern' regulations and then enforce them, but we all know that wont happen, so unfortunately the idea will continue to suffer low support & each National series Masters, NKHTGT, FHR, etc. will the only future for pre-66 saloons.

This post is not aimed at blaming any individual, just my view of things.

I am now involved with the PP HTC series, helping Tom & Patrick with their GTAm, which is the only one running there regularly ; everyone who sees the car loves it, but versus an Escort in the same class has no chance !! We do it because we like to !! At least we have a regular battle with a highly prepared 2002 at each race.

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Old 21 Jan 2019, 10:53 (Ref:3877487)   #32
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The second one is just a Ti, as reflected in the asking price!
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Old 21 Jan 2019, 10:58 (Ref:3877488)   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard C View Post
Could it be either this one
https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/De...-bmw-1800-tisa
or this one
https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/De...k-race-car---5
From what I've been told one ex-mechanic of Laranca is still in the business, selling parts and so on. Never saw the "ding dong" car advertised anywhere.

Words from the 2nd advert ;



I am selling my 1965 BMW 1800 TI FIA RACE CAR - 5 Speed
The only reason for selling is that I have just bought my firends Lotus Cortina race car.


Says it all !!


Martin H - 2 post in one day, it's a record for me !!
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Old 21 Jan 2019, 11:09 (Ref:3877493)   #34
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Words from the 2nd advert ;

I am selling my 1965 BMW 1800 TI FIA RACE CAR - 5 Speed. The only reason for selling is that I have just bought my firends Lotus Cortina race car.

Says it all !!

Martin H - 2 post in one day, it's a record for me !!
It certainly does! Thanks for posting Martin, hope to catch up in Barca.
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Old 21 Jan 2019, 11:29 (Ref:3877499)   #35
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Martin could you please throw me a PM, think I heave a bad quality video to show you, Spa, HTC, 2016… She's was already spitting oil during the first laps. See U!
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Old 21 Jan 2019, 12:06 (Ref:3877509)   #36
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The second one is just a Ti, as reflected in the asking price!
Yes, just checked it's the Ti.
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Old 21 Jan 2019, 16:57 (Ref:3877546)   #37
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Seems to be a good catch, the engine is in good hands and more important it seems the dash board is the right model. There were some differences depending on whether was a 1800 or a 2000 if I'm correct. Yes, OK, some gauges have to me moved if not removed…
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Old 22 Jan 2019, 07:51 (Ref:3877639)   #38
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U2TC is unfortunately the exact result of a great concept, left out with no control and which just killed itself.

Previous and early days so a large mix of cars and diversity among the winners, still, few controls were made and it led to development which I would today qualify of historic super touring.

Most cars aren't build in the spirit of historic racing but just taking full use and interpretation with added modern technology and knowledge availble to the full extent.

Add to this that nobody has dared to disassemble any of the engines, Ford, BMC, Alfa or BMWs, gearbox either, differentials, and you end up with Pre-66 Super Touring car.

Gerard C will remember being in the top 10 in my father's Cortina years ago, partnered by Simon H in what was pretty much an "italian joke" of a legal Cortina with an average French engine serviced once a year and so on, run on a budget... But suddenly, all this became impossible and everybody gave up.

The Cortina we see today are nothing like what they were back in the day, engines neither and I even suspect some to use Japanese internals in the Ford engines while there are heads and engines circulating/casted by Capricorn for Alfa Romeo and such. How is this possible to be on an engine manufacturer waiting list for the new evolution when it comes to historic cars? You tell me.

I am sorry to say but the FIA will never look into this, just like the Mustangs that are now all running funny intake and exhaust manifolds, using the Shelby drop that only came for the GT350 and so on. And don't talk about shaker rig, funny steering columns, seat mounts that are under the shell to lower the full thing and which is illegal, dog boxes on Minis...

Lack of control has led to this funny world called historic touring cars and then the FIA is told they're asking too many questions about the cars.

Funniest I ever saw was the 1800 TISAs that were running very nice suspension dome covers, once we looked under, it was like 5 ways adjustable but we were told, "they all have them!".

Good luck, they say Super Tourers cannot be historic, well they are in Pre-66...
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Old 22 Jan 2019, 08:36 (Ref:3877642)   #39
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Louis, I would love to correct you on this but of course won't because its impossible, sadly you're so right. You mention engines, gearboxes and suspension but may be we can add what is done on the chassis, relocation of axles/ engine and so on. Having a look to reshaped/relocated bulkheads or transmission tunnels is surprising to say the least. Yes again, this is not period correct and many gave up for those reasons as you say.

What you're doing to spot any additional sensor or funny wiring when applying for a new HTP is a very good move, and I hope you won't call me a suck-up for this comment! Not too much my style…

Yes the Cortina we drove - thanks to your dad - could be rated as average, but when the drivers names are either Hadfield or Snobeck it helps. Quite a lot! They've been fighting for the lead but it was in 2007 I guess. By the way, if my memory serves well it was rather the top 5 than top 10, young man!
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Old 22 Jan 2019, 09:11 (Ref:3877647)   #40
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Louis, I would love to correct you on this but of course won't because its impossible, sadly you're so right. You mention engines, gearboxes and suspension but may be we can add what is done on the chassis, relocation of axles/ engine and so on. Having a look to reshaped/relocated bulkheads or transmission tunnels is surprising to say the least. Yes again, this is not period correct and many gave up for those reasons as you say.

What you're doing to spot any additional sensor or funny wiring when applying for a new HTP is a very good move, and I hope you won't call me a suck-up for this comment! Not too much my style…

Yes the Cortina we drove - thanks to your dad - could be rated as average, but when the drivers names are either Hadfield or Snobeck it helps. Quite a lot! They've been fighting for the lead but it was in 2007 I guess. By the way, if my memory serves well it was rather the top 5 than top 10, young man!
Well said, 1:38 at Dijon my first time out in that average car but also when I decided I would not race. What's the point of racing if nobody respects the rules?
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Old 22 Jan 2019, 09:42 (Ref:3877655)   #41
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1:38 ? or 1:48?

in 2005 ( it was hot) a 911 was on pole in 1:40, Nick Stagg the fastest Cortina with 1:45, I did a 1:52. the race, an hour, was slower, fastest lap 1:46.

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Well said, 1:38 at Dijon my first time out in that average car but also when I decided I would not race. What's the point of racing if nobody respects the rules?
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Old 22 Jan 2019, 09:51 (Ref:3877656)   #42
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1:38 ? or 1:48?

in 2005 ( it was hot) a 911 was on pole in 1:40, Nick Stagg the fastest Cortina with 1:45, I did a 1:52. the race, an hour, was slower, fastest lap 1:46.
Best ever time by a Cortina that I can remember was Simon H within the 1:36:... as I remember it, a last flying lap on a cool but sunny morning at the June event we use to run with dad. In 2011 for my best and just broke into the 1:38:... in free practice, in the race, end of day and after a full day of racing, oil and so on, I could just break the 1:40 barrier.
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