Should we run our historic cars in period livery?

[Al Weyman]

Following a thread from down under it seems the guys there have to run their cars in period liveries that the cars would have raced in when current competed models. I wonder if this would work overhere (UK) in some of the many historic championships that are now around and although I would not advocate forcing people to do as such but if say the driver of suitably clad cars could prehaps score an extra point or have some other reward or inducement (tenner off the entry for example )if the entry reflected the period. Just a thought.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Following a thread from down under it seems the guys there have to run their cars in period liveries that the cars would have raced in when current competed models. I wonder if this would work overhere (UK) in some of the many historic championships that are now around and although I would not advocate forcing people to do as such but if say the driver of suitably clad cars could prehaps score an extra point or have some other reward or inducement (tenner off the entry for example )if the entry reflected the period. Just a thought.

Hi Big Al,

The discussion was only about Aussie Group C....from around the 1980s on where you can chose a livery and mechanical configuration that was raced in the period. Group Nc sedans are not allowed any advertising (supposedly) and Na and Nb sedans usually remain true to their original plain-jane livery.

But to answer your question....I personally like to see cars in the livery they raced in....unfortunately, flat, hand painted enamel ain't allways that attractive...but, nothing worse than seeing an historically significant vehicle with some lurid, modern paint job.

I need to go lie down....my head hurts

[Peter Mallett]

A lot of the MGB's currently racing run in the "Works" colours. I've sprayed mine to replicate the Spice/Pillette 1978 Spa 24hrs winning Capri.

Indeed there are plenty of Capris and Rovers sporting the liveries of their period in CTCRC.

[jonners]

trouble is - a badly done replica paint scheme can look awful - about 1 in 10 mk1 escorts seem to be alan mann replicas and most of them look terrible - especially the ones with the 19" wheels...

[Peter Mallett]

True. So you need to be careful. Most of the Mustang GT's run the White/Blue colours and look ok.

[zac510]

275 GTB-4, don't the rules for Classic Adelaide, and perhaps other road rallies, require a paint colour that the car originally came in?

[Steve Wilkinson]

I have no problem with 'historic' cars running in 'period' livery. What I find somewhat annoying is when someone has their car painted in a livery that was from the period the car was racing but was never run on that particular model of racing car!

There is also a potential problem with the Cigarette Advertising situation. It would be OK for someone with a Lotus 72 to run it in either Gold Leaf or John Player colours or even Lucky Strike but it would not be acceptable to run it in Marlboro colours!

I suspect there will also be a problem matching the actual paint colours and with older cars you may struggle to get a true colour representation.

It is an interesting subject and I have been able to help two or three owners replicate the colour schemes on their cars from old photos I had on file.

It may be difficult to make people paint their racing cars in the period livery. However I think it is more important that we should ensure that they don't paint them in a totally inappropriate livery!

[terence]

Completely agree with the idea, there are obvious reasons for any new paint schemes to look as period,as long as they are done properly.As for the complications arising from tobaco / cigarette manufactures colour schemes,just leave off the name,as in Belga etc: the cars look just as good as they did originally.As for the correct colours,that should not create to many headaches

[zefarelly]

I agree with the idea . . .but what about my car ? ? ?

its ford colours, period too, but the livery was white and red for Willment, not sky blue

good or bad ? ? ? the only reason I didn't do it white was because all the Loti are white

although I have a lovely spare white car on the drive at the moment I could race

and a spare blue one the buyer hasn't collected

and a lime green one too

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by terence bower

,just leave off the name,as in Belga etc: the cars look just as good as they did originally.

OK that's another beer.

[terence]

Lime Green would be perfect Zef!! I agree with you totally, when I first built my"B" there were only a few in the [mandatory] works colours,now------.Originally it was going to be dark British Racing Green, I could not make up my mind and my wife loves Red,so!

[terence]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

OK that's another beer.

But its getting near christmass!!!!!

[johnw]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

(tenner off the entry for example

You'd probably have to be sleeping with the Competition Director to get anything off th entry fee Al

[zefarelly]

unfortunately the lime green is a rarity in being the earliest surviving GT, and its got a full length white webasto.

so its gettting the full resto treatment and my collection of period goodies, aquaplane head, original aley bars roll cage etc etc etc

[LotusElise]

I prefer a period-style paint job, in keeping with the era the car was built or primarily raced in. Insistence on a particular colour strikes me as odd, especially when different teams used the same car but different colours.

[terence]

There is no insistence,besides, I can think of several teams that only ever ran in "period colours,Ecurie Ecosse, Ecurie Francorchamps, there is quite a list .Part of that was to get the teams recognised just by the colour of the car,like British racing green.Jack Sears& Mike Parks Jaguars were finished in Radiant blue--the list is endless

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by LotusElise

I prefer a period-style paint job, in keeping with the era the car was built or primarily raced in. Insistence on a particular colour strikes me as odd, especially when different teams used the same car but different colours.

If you were to replicate the livery of say Gold Leaf Team Lotus but used a paler red and a darker gold then in theory you would be contravening the regulations with respect to the Cigarette Advertising Ban and could well fail scrutineering!

I understand what you are saying about the same car in slightly differing colours (BRM Green for instance!) however IF you replicate a livery that includes a cigarette company logo etc then you MUST get it right.

If I was fortunate enough to own an Historic Lotus Single Seater I would want to make sure it was in the correct livery for its maiden season and that the colours were exactly right.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

If you were to replicate the livery of say Gold Leaf Team Lotus but used a paler red and a darker gold then in theory you would be contravening the regulations with respect to the Cigarette Advertising Ban and could well fail scrutineering!

Out of interest what are the rules regarding Cigarette sponsorship. Is it breaking the rules to run an original car in Gold Leaf or JPS colours. I think these brands are not sold anymore (I'm now a non smoker so maybe wrong). Marlboro are still very active - would it be more of a problem to run a 70's or 80's spec Mclaren in Marlboro livery?

Personally I like to see original cars run in the original livery as it brings back good memories. Bad copies are a bit of a turn off but ironically some are too good. I had a look at some of the 70's f1 cars recently and they were absolutely perfect, not a mark on them. When they raced originally I always remember the as sometimes being a little tatty!

[terence]

There are quite a few Historic F1 cars running these colour schemes,there dos,nt seem to be a problem on that score. Like I said earlier, if the name is left off the there is no problem at all.In period ,some where very tatty,they sometimes were used a lot more then than what they are now!

[jonners]

Originally Posted by terence bower

As for the correct colours,that should not create to many headaches

Always does with Alan Mann replicas and on the restorations of the real ones - the red's quite unusual and that's bad enough but Alan Mann used to have gold leaf mixed in for the roofs and stripes - don't ask me how they got it through the spray gun...

...and this is not to be confused with the widespread misconception that gold leaf in the paint was just a confusion with Gold Leaf sponsorship - I've seen a dried up tin of the paint given to a mate who bought one of the Cortinas from Alan Mann in the late sixties - just needed a few gallons of thinners - looked very peculiar...

Infact quite a few Lotus Cortinas that are out there racing use the wrong colour green stripe and the correct colour is well known so getting a period livery right - even a recent one - is unlikely to be easy.

My view is that faux liveries look atrocious - mutton dressed up as lamb. Either get it absolutely spot on or don't bother. Several tame Porsches and even some non Porsche cars sport a Gulf livery - seems to emphasise how much they AREN'T the real thing...

[terence]

I agree entirely about the Gulf colour Porsche,s. As for the Alan Mann Gold, it was only ever a straight metalic ,I was fortunate enough to do a fair bit of work on a very well preserved example, it had never been repainted.Also, If you know where to look ,you can usally obtain these original colours, ICI, have a vast library covering a lot of comercial/domestic colours etc.The Lotus Green is also a direct match to a Citreon colour.

[Al Weyman]

Surely if you dressed you car in period tobacco advertising logos then if you were not actually getting paid to show the logo is that illegal because if so then I go to a local pub that has old tobacco advert posters over every wall, are they also breaking the law, has anybody ever tested this?

[jonners]

Originally Posted by terence bower

As for the Alan Mann Gold, it was only ever a straight metalic...The Lotus Green is also a direct match to a Citreon colour.

No - the gold paint applied by Alan Mann had gold leaf in it. Lotus green is Citreon sherwood green.

[Al Weyman]

You can't spray Gold leaf if you are talking about the tradition stuff used in signwriting, you have to lay down a glue (size) then the layers of gold leaf built up onto this and then burnished.

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by terence bower

There are quite a few Historic F1 cars running these colour schemes,there dos,nt seem to be a problem on that score. Like I said earlier, if the name is left off the there is no problem at all.

It's not just the Historic F1s. In the HSCC races this year Peter Dunn's March 761 ran with full Marlboro logos while Peter Studer's Lotus 59 (European F2 at Brands Superprix) and Albert Clements' Lotus 69 ran in full Gold Leaf colours and logos. In my view they looked so much better for it as well.

Wasn't there some problem in France this year with the TGP series when the representatives of some tobacco companies requested that the liveries were altered as they were woried about France's total ban on tobacco sponsorship?