LMP2 Manufacturers and Engine Suppliers

[Coach Ep]

Ginetta didn't drop their P3. And the ACO didn't allow Ginetta into P2.

Did you read the article at all?

[Akrapovic]

I did. Ginetta didn't cover themselves with glory with the LMP3. Had it been better then they may have been granted a P2 license. It wasn't reliable, the build quality was poor and teams complained of support issues. It didn't paint them in a good light for a LMP2 program.

But the LMP3 was almost completely dropped. They don't even list it as a current vehicle on their website (http://www.ginetta.com/cars.php). The article also didn't really say much about future LMP3 plans. Some of the cars will run in the British Prototype series. Very good, but what we really want to know is if they'll ran in the big boy leagues. That wasn't really answered and the question about the future turned into a bragging paragraph about how great the car is. For a car they haven't dropped, they seem remarkably quiet about it.

I know it's not cool to rag on Ginetts, and it's a shame because I do love the G40/G50. But the LMP3 was a bit of a bodge job and was clearly rushed to get it out before anything else. It's a shame because now nobody wants to run them.

[Bcarr6]

For the record, the expected entry for AsLMs this year is pretty strong. Let's hope they materialise

Oh and also lets hope they actually have good coverage


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ospi]

Last season they spoke of live streaming for aslms this season but they could be full of hot air. They have also shot themselves in the foot by scheduling the first round a week after elms which makes it impossible for elms teams to run their cars for the first round. The series has potential, but only if they stop pointing the gun at their own head.

[Mike E]

ORECA have dumped Brembo for AP Racing after a series of problems.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...ng-issues.html

[Akrapovic]

I suspect they'll be allowed to change that despite homologation issues, based on safety grounds. Can't have a bunch of cars out on track with questionable braking systems.

[J Jay]

Brembo have been dumped faster than headphone sockets on smartphones it seems.

Can't say I have any issues with the quick switch, clearly there is a big problem with at least one batch at Brembo.

[Japanese Samurai]

It seems that Brembo has a problem about supply of compound of carbon brake.
Brembo has also the trouble which couldn't supply "2015 spec" brake pad compound to Japanese Super Formula this year.
Super Formula changed brake bland from Brembo to Hitoco due to this trouble.

[J Jay]

Thanks for that JS. The hole deepends for Brembo.

[chernaudi]

Granted, this is a thread for LMP2, but in LMP1 and both GTE classes (for sure GTE Pro), I don't think that there's a restriction that the calipers and rotors have to come from the same supplier.

For instance, Audi and Porsche both use Brembo calipers, but they could be using Brembo, Hitco, AP or Carbon Indistrie rotors. And for pads, you can add to those mentioned brands like Performance Friction, Raybestos, Willwood, and others. Some teams in F1 or LMP900/LMP1 have been know to use the same brand of calipers, but different rotor/pad combinations on different cars or for different tracks due to driver preference or performance characteristics.

Granted, the ACO don't want that to happen in LMP2 due to trying to keep car and maintenance costs down. But does LMP2 have a rule that caliper/pads and rotor supply have to be from the same company or can they mix/match brands prior to homologation for the season?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Granted, the ACO don't want that to happen in LMP2 due to trying to keep car and maintenance costs down. But does LMP2 have a rule that caliper/pads and rotor supply have to be from the same company or can they mix/match brands prior to homologation for the season?

From article 12.4 of the 2016 LMP2 technical regulations...

Only one model of brake disk, pad and calliper will be homologated for each model of car.

My take on that is that outside of some other technical requirements (max rotor diameter, max number of caliper pistons, etc.), they don't care about mix and match between "suppliers", but rather that one combo (one "model" of each component) is homologated. I would assume per the comments above that they can re-homologate a new solution based upon safety. I also assume that means the old homologation will be withdrawn. So everyone moves to the new spec.

Richard

[Ospi]

Well I hope the old homologation isn't withdrawn, because it's a major unexpected expense to dump on teams, particularly in elms with only 2 rounds remaining and some haven't had even an inkling of an issue with the package.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Ospi

Well I hope the old homologation isn't withdrawn, because it's a major unexpected expense to dump on teams, particularly in elms with only 2 rounds remaining and some haven't had even an inkling of an issue with the package.

I am only speculating on the withdrawal. I don't know how these things work. I would assume that if you have to make a case based upon safety that you may not then be allowed to keep the old homologation in place (especially if the part in question was so dangerous it should be immediately withdrawn).

But there might be extenuating factors such as you mention. Especially if the failure is not pervasive. They may allow continued use of the old for a short period of time (end of 2016 season??) If someone has insider or direct knowledge of how this process works, please speak up. I assume this is not the first time something like this has happened and that precedents exist for how to proceed.

Richard

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I am only speculating on the withdrawal. I don't know how these things work. I would assume that if you have to make a case based upon safety that you may not then be allowed to keep the old homologation in place (especially if the part in question was so dangerous it should be immediately withdrawn).

But there might be extenuating factors such as you mention. Especially if the failure is not pervasive. They may allow continued use of the old for a short period of time (end of 2016 season??) If someone has insider or direct knowledge of how this process works, please speak up. I assume this is not the first time something like this has happened and that precedents exist for how to proceed.

Richard

It's model not make. The issue is that the rotors are wearing improperly one one side, and nobody seems to know why. The caliper pressures are even, the pads have been okay, but the discs aren't. And it's unilateral. I've talked with a friend at AP, who are in a roundabout fashion owned by Brembo, and they've not seen similar issues. Hitco, while small, may find things tough as it usually takes 9 months to get things prepped. I'd bet, they(for lack of a better term) will cobble together a package that fits the dimensions of wheels, and such. The hard part is going to get capliper mounting brackets built and distributed to the teams.

[chernaudi]

If AP Racing is owned by Brembo, then why wouldn't the ACO claim that they're parts from the same company aside from brand name? Also odd how the main company is having issues with LMP2 brakes, but a division owned by them isn't.

And on the Indy Car deal, until Brembo came in with the DW12, Indy Car used steel rotors, and only switched to carbon/carbon brakes with the DW12. Also, the Brembo brake package in that series was built to a price. Could that be part of the issue with the LMP2 brake rotors?

[Ospi]

So the info I recieved is that the brembo package is no longer homologated and all 05 teams must change to the AP package at their own expense (25 to 35k euro). No word on whether the teams will be compensated. Ouch.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

If AP Racing is owned by Brembo, then why wouldn't the ACO claim that they're parts from the same company aside from brand name? Also odd how the main company is having issues with LMP2 brakes, but a division owned by them isn't.

AFAIK, AP is under the Brembo umbrella, but, that's it. They maintain their own manufacturing, and everything else.

And on the Indy Car deal, until Brembo came in with the DW12, Indy Car used steel rotors, and only switched to carbon/carbon brakes with the DW12. Also, the Brembo brake package in that series was built to a price. Could that be part of the issue with the LMP2 brake rotors?

Doubtful. I think this is a pure quality control problem.

[Akrapovic]

Was this not a thing all the way back in 2014? Oak/G-Drive had continued problems with the brakes on the Ligier and it ended up costing G-Drive the championship IIRC when a brake failed. I seem to recall that being Brembo as well, and a continued problem.

[bentley speed 8]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Was this not a thing all the way back in 2014? Oak/G-Drive had continued problems with the brakes on the Ligier and it ended up costing G-Drive the championship IIRC when a brake failed. I seem to recall that being Brembo as well, and a continued problem.

You mean that crash at Interlagos? I was going to post about this as well, but was not sure whether it was a brake issue.

[blankfile]

I remember some interview with rusinov, he was pretty livid about those damn brembo brakes back when g-drive was with onroak

[Irie]

Originally Posted by bentley speed 8

You mean that crash at Interlagos? I was going to post about this as well, but was not sure whether it was a brake issue.

Hadn't they a problem also at Bahrain that cost them the championship?

[Deleted]

Ehh I don't know, the new Onroak looks more... bulby... narrower at the same time... I don't know how that works



Oh and because of the ever continuing "everybody needs to win" attitude of course, how about another meaningless sub class
http://sportscar365.com/lemans/elms/...s-lmp2-format/

But at least there won't be one (I think) at LM

[Damian Baldi]

Maybe it's the picture.

It looks nice here

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/plu...igier-js-p217/

[bentley speed 8]

I like it, those headlights look good
Regarding the new class, well the new LMP2s will certainly be a tad faster than the current cars, so I don't really see a problem with it (and it won't be around for long anyway)

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Oh and because of the ever continuing "everybody needs to win" attitude of course, how about another meaningless sub class
http://sportscar365.com/lemans/elms/...s-lmp2-format/

But at least there won't be one (I think) at LM

More like the people who pay the bills aren't buying the new toys so it's either 2016 cars or fewer cars than they thought. Bad enough with a 2 or 3 car LMP1 subclass but their new 'cost controlled' class being small too? And they can't let the 2016s 'win' so separate class.