May 16 AND 30 are open dates

[MLM]

I guess most of you have seen the OWRS schedule.
May 16 AND 30 are open dates.
Doesn't look like N-H has anything stopping them from going to Indy now.

Wonder if anyone else (from CART/OWRS)are going?
OT: today's events(OWRS) seemed rather...um, shall we say, subdued. Do you think the events in LB today and tomorrow will have any impact on the IRL (anymore drivers/teams going to Indy and/or the IRL.....)?Yes, no, maybe?

[GP Racer]

Yeah, I saw their "schedule". Very impressive, S Korea, S Africa. Maybe Afghanistan in 05! Way to work on that fan base!

The only OWRS entrant I've heard about is N-H, with Junquiero driving. Other than that, I havn't heard.

I think that OWRS will muddle through this season, and then next year, there will be more defections. There has to be. They have to many problems to fix, and its going to take more than some hot air by Gentilozzi to make it right. I'm not hearing good things about their big Long Beach show either. There biggest problem will be sponsorship. I can't see how any sponsor would want to be seen on Spike TV!

But enough of them, like TG said, "careful what you wish for, it may come true". I think Gentilozzi is about to find that out.

[macdaddy]

Having BMW onboard ain't gonna hurt none.

But, back to topic, the open dates are quite curious.

[GP Racer]

Oops! Did I go off topic?

Umm, maybe alittle...

[MLM]

Hey GP, should I dust off my burka for Afghanastan?
Nah....I'll stick with packing my bag for Pole Day

Back to seriousness, I didn't hear or read great things, either...especially the Patrick/Forsyte debacle

[climb]

IMO 2004 will be their toughest year; very hard to survuive for OWRS, if they do things wil start go better, but for now, I reckon time for celebrations after the winning bid on CART assets is far gone.

[MLM]

www.champweb.net reported that McDonald's is sponsoring Broudais, that Bruno(the 2nd driver, according to to the report ) has Pacific Care....and that Cialis was not mentioned at the press conference.

"McDonalds Signs Multi-Year Deal posted on 14:49

McDonalds and Newman-Haas Racing have signed a multi-year deal with Sebastien Bourdais as the driver for 2004. They will be advertising Paul Newman's "Newman's Own" salad dressing for McDonalds.

Bruno Junqueira also was announced as the second driver for Newman-Haas with PacifiCare sponsorship.

Cialis was not part of the press conference at all"


My guess: Cialis be sponsoring the Indy 500 effort (Cialis is made by Lily...which is based in Indy. Makes a lot of sense to me)

[Tim Northcutt]

A Few Notes:

There are teams like Newman-Haas that will come to Indy with those open dates available.....

There are others in OWRS who wouldn't come to play in Tony's World if he went to their garages with an invitation engraved in gold...

and there are the teams in the third group that won't have two extra nickels to rub together due to tight budgets just to run OWRS that they just can't afford to do it...

If they come, they come....if they don't, I won't miss 'em....

But I do find it inteesting how big of a "non-event" the "unveiling" has become in Long Beach....

When one of the "Big Three" behind the Series -- the team that won last year's championship -- hasn't pulled things together enough to have thier sponsor in place for the driver who won the Championship --
is not a good sign that things are going to improve in the other series....

On the other hand, everyone running in OWRS had very little time to pull things together...from late January to early March is not a lot of time to seal deals....and the Series HAD to start releasing info....March is LATE for announcing schedules...so they couldn't put it off another two weeks while teams finalized sponsor deals, etc...

They will pull it together by mid-April...and they will be close to, or will reach their 18 cars needed for the contracts...but there won't be much room beyond that...

[911gt1]

Originally posted by MLM
www.champweb.net
My guess: Cialis be sponsoring the Indy 500 effort (Cialis is made by Lily...which is based in Indy. Makes a lot of sense to me)

Nope, Cialis sprung for more TV adverts. They had to settle their PR budget before OWRS & NH could give them firm answers.

[MLM]

Originally posted by 911gt1
Nope, Cialis sprung for more TV adverts. They had to settle their PR budget before OWRS & NH could give them firm answers.

Maybe...just maybe, N-H had a firm answer for them (for Indy) months ago? :confused:
(Don't forget, there was Lily sponsorship on SB's car last year....Lily makes LOTS of products, in addition to Cialis)
If not, then WHO will sponsor N-H at Indy?

BTW, Tim,good post!

[Tenoch]

I expect one of the five Mexican drivers in OWRS to make a run at INDY, five how did that happen.

[racer69]

The only one i could see entering would be Fernandez, running his team's spare.

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by GP Racer
Yeah, I saw their "schedule". Very impressive, S Korea, S Africa. Maybe Afghanistan in 05! Way to work on that fan base!

The only OWRS entrant I've heard about is N-H, with Junquiero driving. Other than that, I havn't heard.

I think that OWRS will muddle through this season, and then next year, there will be more defections. There has to be. They have to many problems to fix, and its going to take more than some hot air by Gentilozzi to make it right. I'm not hearing good things about their big Long Beach show either. There biggest problem will be sponsorship. I can't see how any sponsor would want to be seen on Spike TV!

But enough of them, like TG said, "careful what you wish for, it may come true". I think Gentilozzi is about to find that out.

As expected, I don't share you opinions. I think the schedule is fairly positive actually. Losing St. Pete and Mid-Ohio is a disappointment, but definitely is not a make or brake the series type of issue. I'm not sure why so many people are ragging on S. Korea and S. Africa. If OWRS is getting the rumoured 5 million sanction fee, than why shouldn't they go there? Thats about 4 million more than they get in North America. Plus TV audience won't change much vs. most N. American tracks. Also from the sounds of it there are tons of Champcar fans in those countries and there is a good chance they'll have larger crowds than they could get at most tracks here. Who knows, maybe they will turn out to be like Mexico and Australia.

You are wondering what sponsors would join the series now that it's going to be on Spike TV? Well so far McDonalds has signed a multi-year contract with Newman-Hass. Lease Plan has signed with Rocketsports. Red Bull has joined up with Rusport. NII(previously owned by Nextel) has signed with PKV Racing. Pacificare has extended its contract with Newman Hass. BMW has just joined the series and become part of the ladder series. So there are a few companies that have no problems with sponsorship for OWRS or being shown on Spike TV. I'm also not sure why people think that Spike TV is some horrible TV station with no credibility. Spike TV is simply TNN with a new name, and some new programming. It is an extremely reputable station with tons of viewers. Why WOULDN'T sponsors want be shown on Spike TV is a better question than "why" would any companies want to be seen on Spike.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by jjspierx
As expected, I don't share you opinions. I think the schedule is fairly positive actually. Losing St. Pete and Mid-Ohio is a disappointment, but definitely is not a make or brake the series type of issue. I'm not sure why so many people are ragging on S. Korea and S. Africa. If OWRS is getting the rumoured 5 million sanction fee, than why shouldn't they go there? Thats about 4 million more than they get in North America. Plus TV audience won't change much vs. most N. American tracks. Also from the sounds of it there are tons of Champcar fans in those countries and there is a good chance they'll have larger crowds than they could get at most tracks here. Who knows, maybe they will turn out to be like Mexico and Australia.

You are wondering what sponsors would join the series now that it's going to be on Spike TV? Well so far McDonalds has signed a multi-year contract with Newman-Hass. Lease Plan has signed with Rocketsports. Red Bull has joined up with Rusport. NII(previously owned by Nextel) has signed with PKV Racing. Pacificare has extended its contract with Newman Hass. BMW has just joined the series and become part of the ladder series. So there are a few companies that have no problems with sponsorship for OWRS or being shown on Spike TV. I'm also not sure why people think that Spike TV is some horrible TV station with no credibility. Spike TV is simply TNN with a new name, and some new programming. It is an extremely reputable station with tons of viewers. Why WOULDN'T sponsors want be shown on Spike TV is a better question than "why" would any companies want to be seen on Spike.

Foreign races come at a steep price.

How long will it be before there are Korean and S African drivers in the series, thereby taking up another seat, that an American driver can't get? I'm really surprised at how you, an American Champ Car hopeful, can support the foreign races, that will surely bring more foreign drivers. Your future is already rather grim, unfortunately, but this will just add to the problem.

As for the "rumored" sanction fee, is that from the same rumor mill, that tells us they get 400,000 PAYING fans at Mexico City on a race weekend?

Spike TV, give me a break! To call it reputable, is at best a stretch. I don't call all day showings of re-runs of Star Trek: The Next Generation, or the A-Team reputable programming, or WWE Wrestling credible! Tons of viewers, no way. They may get into alot of households, but who's watching? OWRs would have been better off on Speed. Now thats credible, and they know how to do racing. TV is the thing that will eventually make-or-break this series, and I don't see any way for Spike to help it, IMHO, of course...

Didn't we have this argument once before, on another forum?

[jjspierx]

I don't see foreign races, or foreign drivers as a threat to me or the series. The best drivers will prevail, I don't think nationality should have anything to do with it. While I'm not arguing that Nationality does have an effect on what viewers watch the sport, I still don't think their should be any National Discrimination in the sport for the drivers.

As for Mexico, I had heard it was almost 300,000 for the race weekend. I don't know of any reason to doubt this, but maybe you know something that I don't?

Just because you don't like certain programming, doesn't mean that a channel's isn't reputable. Heck, Speed Channel plays mostly Nascar related stuff, and most people consider it reputable and a better place to be than Spike. I don't like Nascar, but that doesn't make me think that Speed Channel is a bad place to be for a racing series other than Nascar. And I just happen to like A-Team reruns, so there.

[Tim Northcutt]

A Few Notes to Consider:

1. The Spike TV deal will show races at 4 p.m. in every US time zone...thus only the West Coast Races that start at 1 p.m. will be "Live" on the East Coast....personally, I think that stinks!!!!

1a. How much is this TV deal costing them, or is Spike Paying OWRS???
At least they seemed to get out of the CBS buy for this year...too expensive for a fledgling Series....that was a smart move...

2. Of that 5 million fee from Korea, how much of it will be spent to ship the cars, teams and equipment, and provide housing, etc....there are going to be teams that will barely have two nickels to rub together this season (Fittapaldi, Walker, etc.) and won't have that kind of $$$ for trips to Asia and South Africa....and with the way the schedule shakes out, they could be on the road for three weeks or so...not cheap to do....for teams or the Series...let alone the transport from Asia to the bottom of the world atthe tip of Africa...

By the time they will return to the States, they will have traveled more than the circumference of the globe...to run two races...that's it....

3. Speaking of Finances and deals...the "Big Three" said they were not going to do the same things that got CART into Bankruptcy, yet they WILL provide some funding to some teams.....but it "won't be a gift", whatever the hell that means....and "it won't be over a million dollars"...

so...is it a loan???....is it a "payment for showing up???" Since it is no longer a "Public" corporation, we'll never really know how much they WILL spend out because they won't have to file SEC reports, etc....

But Walker got nearly $5 million to race last year according to CART documents...why is his situation any different this year??? Noticed that he wasn't in Long Beach making any announcements or showing off the livery on his car(s) with "sponsors".....no drivers named, and the rumor mill keeps cranking along about how he has this in the fire or that in the fire....I'll believe it when I see it...

4. They also will be "promoting" Cleveland and "co-promoting" Portland (a venue where they also cut the sanctioning fee)...another thing they said was too costly and would not be a business practice of the new regime....granted...Cleveland is a great race to watch...but if it is such a "money machine," why hasn't someone picked it up to promote it???? No big businesses there, no other promoters who run various races in various venues like the group that does Long Beach, not even the City of Cleveland...

Why is that??? And why should anyone think that this isn't going to cost OWRS $$$...even though it will be a daytime race that won't run up an $850,000 light bill?????

5...Thus...Lots of Questions...that have been out there for a few months now...but no answers....not even this week at the "unveiling"...where everything was going to be laid out....but all it did was raise more questions....

Bottom Line:

A LOt of this looks like "Heiztler and Pook -- The Sequel"....that's no way to do business.....

If OWRS is going to be a Major racing Series they better get their act together....or all of the IRL Haters aren't going to have an racing to watch a few years down the road....unless they turn on ABC or ESPN to watch the Indy Racing League....because the IRL will still be around

[Tim Northcutt]

"As for Mexico, I had heard it was almost 300,000 for the race weekend. I don't know of any reason to doubt this, but maybe you know something that I don't?"


_________________

At an average ticket price of $50, that's $15 million gross...just off tickets...no beers, no "Drag me off in a death C.A.R.T" t-shirts or other Series merchandise sales, not frajitas, no parking, or any other revenues that CART would have made of of that kind of event....

If CART had 300,000 people in Mexico, plus the other "Huge" crowds we heard about in Europe, etc., they wouldn't have LOST nearly $100 million last year....

That's how I know it is bogus....do the math...it don't add up...

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
"As for Mexico, I had heard it was almost 300,000 for the race weekend. I don't know of any reason to doubt this, but maybe you know something that I don't?"


_________________

At an average ticket price of $50, that's $15 million gross...just off tickets...no beers, no "Drag me off in a death C.A.R.T" t-shirts or other Series merchandise sales, not frajitas, no parking, or any other revenues that CART would have made of of that kind of event....

If CART had 300,000 people in Mexico, plus the other "Huge" crowds we heard about in Europe, etc., they wouldn't have LOST nearly $100 million last year....

That's how I know it is bogus....do the math...it don't add up...

You beat me to it Tim!

If those fan numbers were correct, they would have put Pook in jail for letting the series go "bankrupt"!

[Testure]

Originally posted by GP Racer
Yeah, I saw their "schedule". Very impressive, S Korea, S Africa. Maybe Afghanistan in 05! Way to work on that fan base!

"There's that attitude again".

Sorry, couldn't help it... There's enough good things to say about each series without being rude about things.

[jjspierx]

It would be just about impossible for anything that OWRS could do to please some of you. I hear people complain about Portland, saying PG is threatening Portland and asking too much of a sanctioning fee. Then when its announced OWRS has struck a deal with Portland and is co-promoting, there are still complaints.

PG announces there will be 18 cars, and many members say that will never happen, its impossible, PG is lying, or just plain wrong. Then slowly some people change their tune and say, ok maybe they will just barely scrape by with 18. And those of you that still don't believe there will 18 cars, will undoubteldy find a negative spin to the 18 drivers when they are all confirmed. My guess is that it will sound something like "ok, so there are 18 drivers, but they barely made it most of the drivers suck".

Then theres the TV deal, many doubted there would be one, or that it would just be highlights and clips and tape delayed by a week and that it would be on the home gardening network. The fact is, they will have the full race shown, and it will be tape delayed by a few hours and shown at the same time every race weekend on a fairly big cable TV station(like the station or not, its still a major station).

Sponsors were another issue. At this point, we are unsure of Forsythes sponsor for Tracy, however McDonalds has signed a multiyear deal, as well as several other large companies with OWRS, and this is only the series first year.

As for the overseas races, we have no idea how much it will cost the series and teams, and quite frankly, who cares, its not any of yours or my business. If the series makes a profit and its feasible then they will go back after 2004, lets just wait and see and not speculate on something we don't know.

And Tim, as for the "unveiling" making for more questions, I think thats just a personal opinion of yours and very few others. As for me, I found the answers to lots of questions that I had. Also you say that OWRS needs to get its act together, its only been in existance as a series owner for less than a month, they have done nothing yet to make me or most people think they need to get their act together. Why don't we just all wait and see how the first few races of the season go before we form opinions on the future state of the series.

[MLM]

Originally posted by Testure
"There's that attitude again".

Sorry, couldn't help it... There's enough good things to say about each series without being rude about things.

Sorry, Testure,but rudeness, I'm sorry to say, is a 2-way street.
Not from you necessarily, but I've seen it in plenty of other places (especially where "F-so-and-so" is part of the standard lexicon )

You are right...there are good things about the IRL and there are good things about OWRS (like some of the drivers and venues). Unfortunately, it seems that the negatives outwiegh the positives at this point (especially on the OWRS side, IMO )

[MLM]

A side note (I'm only doing this because my "5 min. time to edit a post"is up )....GP check your PM

[Tenoch]

Why do you guys bother to look at the OWRS schedule if all your going to do is bash it and its fans.

[macdaddy]

Good question, Tenoch.
This thread no longer has any useful purpose, IMO.

[macdaddy]

This thread was originally intended to discuss which, if any, ChampCar teams might enter the Indy500. It was not intended to discuss CC's launch, their schedule, sponsors, TV contract, Mexican attendance...
It was meant to discuss the starting field in May.

Feel free to start a new thread to discuss this, if anybody has anything to add. Otherwise, if you wanna talk CC you're clearly on the wrong board.