Supercars Gen 3 (2022)

[tux]

Is there a chance that some teams could miss the first race due to a lack of parts?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by tux

Is there a chance that some teams could miss the first race due to a lack of parts?

You would like to think not, but it is veeeeerrrrryyyyy late in proceedings

A car can turn up in Newcastle, the risk is if it gets scratched, do the teams have the parts first up, and does the modular assembly do the job it was designed to do.. or will cars get parked..

I look at it a few ways. The King of Erebus made a few remarks about some teams showing off a partially completed car.. and making a hulabaloo about it, while the 'Erebus Way' is to 'tell the truth' and talk about 'real talk'

The TBR Cooldrive car was in the media all over the place, because NOBODY else is saying ANYTHING!

BJR is sharing their manufacturing processes on FB.. and its creating something...

But this is the biggest change to Supercar since the departure of the Black WIggle, and nobody is talking about it. Good or bad.

Madness

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by one five five

You can’t buy a Camaro in real life! Walkinshaw stopped producing them in 2020, they’re just as old as the so-called “old ZB Commodore”!

Likewise you couldn't buy a Camaro when Big Rev Kev rolled one, nor Sierras, Fox-body Mustangs, turbo Bluebirds or many other cars people look back on wistfully now, so it's not exactly new.

ATCC/Supercars has been through various eras and you could potentially say it has a huge heritage in overseas metal that isn't really market relevant.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The TBR Cooldrive car was in the media all over the place, because NOBODY else is saying ANYTHING!

BJR is sharing their manufacturing processes on FB.. and its creating something...

But this is the biggest change to Supercar since the departure of the Black WIggle, and nobody is talking about it. Good or bad.

Madness

Guess it's all part of the modern world where people expect 24 hour news on every subject. It's not that long ago where you would hear nothing from any race series from the end of the last race weekend to the start of the first.

Erebus have posted about the issues they are facing with pictures of the cars. Penrite have posted videos about where they are at. Those were just the first two I looked for. I expect there are other updates.

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by tux

Is there a chance that some teams could miss the first race due to a lack of parts?

I think they will do anything and everything to make it. They turfed the in-car roll bar adjustment due to supply/time issues recently which gives you some insight into their desperation.

Like GTR said, it's the second race, when spare parts are needed that will be the real problem.

Gen3 will be the death of "Supercars" and I welcome it with open arms - obviously not enough changed with new ownership to get rid of old attitudes and practices. Top tier motorsport in Australia needs a freshen up

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

ATCC/Supercars has been through various eras and you could potentially say it has a huge heritage in overseas metal that isn't really market relevant.

So why not prioritise homologating the Nissan Z, Toyota Supra and/or BMW M850i?

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

So why not prioritise homologating the Nissan Z, Toyota Supra and/or BMW M850i?

Maybe the manufacturers concerned are not currently interested? BMW was being mentioned in connection to WAU at one stage but it didn't seem to get very far. Of course the Supra and Z are both 2 seaters so not sure if they'd be eligible in any case.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Maybe the manufacturers concerned are not currently interested?

Isn't Ford the only manufacturer interested? It doesn't seem to be a green light to receive the most favourable treatment, with Ford Performance currently feeling they need to be very vigilant to avoid unfavourable outcomes in the paritising process.

If Supercars are willing to homologate the Camaro at their own expense according to rumours, why not do the same for Nissan who supported the category for many years recently?

Otherwise, with only token Chevrolet Racing interest, a Ford Mustang Cup would likely have been best.

As you say Supercars has fallen to a point where it is not of much interest to manufacturers anymore, with only Ford Performance interest, that's why Supercars needs to take the initiative to attract the manufacturers!

Look at the initiative ACO have taken to bolster the existing roster of Toyota + token Alpine (sound familiar?), and the huge dividends that has paid! Look at the huge variety of manufacturers the BTCC has achieved on the grid, due to the initiative they have taken by making it simple for even a private team to add a new manufacturer.

Originally Posted by Tourer

Of course the Supra and Z are both 2 seaters so not sure if they'd be eligible in any case.

Banning the Z and Supra for not having rear seats, when the Mustang and Camaro are direct market rivals to them which only have notional rear seats in any case, would be the most ridiculous rule in the world.

It would be no wonder that manufacturers would not be interested if they are made to jump through hoops like only being allowed to use the Lexus RC and Infiniti Q60 four seaters and prohibited from using the Supra and Z. Notwithstanding that just like the Chevrolet Camaro, the Infiniti Q60 is not sold in Australia any more.

[S griffin]

We're not going to get multiple makes in the series, but that won't matter. As long as we have at least two. Nice Ford are still going, but for how long? I don't think we really need that many manufacturers anyway

There will always be plenty of interest in LM, but that's more world stage. And the BTCC is a completely different beast. The manufacturers are more attracted by the rules there. But for V8 Supercars it's unique. They do things their way and it's no bad thing. We don't need multiple makes as I said. Just two or three, as plenty can run them.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Banning the Z and Supra for not having rear seats, when the Mustang and Camaro are direct market rivals to them which only have notional rear seats in any case, would be the most ridiculous rule in the world.

Except that it's not the most ridiculous rule - it is a very long-standing touring car requirement to have 4 seats (even if the rears ARE pretty small).

Not sure that it still applies to Supercars though, hence my comment written the way it was.

Oh, and IF it transpires that 4 seats are required, the 2 seat cars haven't been "banned" - they simply don't comply to the current rules.

[GTRMagic]

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by S griffin

We're not going to get multiple makes in the series, but that won't matter. As long as we have at least two. Nice Ford are still going, but for how long? I don't think we really need that many manufacturers anyway

Originally Posted by Tourer

Oh, and IF it transpires that 4 seats are required, the 2 seat cars haven't been "banned" - they simply don't comply to the current rules.

Surely having European and Asian manufacturers on the grid is very, very important?

Especially when American auto manufacturers, especially Chevrolet which many view as distinct from Holden for whatever reason, are a very, very minor component of the Australian automotive landscape.

[V8 Fireworks]

As it stands both Ford and Supercars are remaining tight-lipped on the outcome of the test, with plans to release a public statement later this week.

Motorsport.com understands that all parties were satisfied with the data collated from the test, however that doesn't necessarily mean peace over parity between Ford and Supercars has been declared.

It is also thought that no firm decision over whether more runway testing, similar to that used for the VCAT aero homologation testing, will be required before the cars are formally homologated has been made.

There have been concerns over parity from the Ford side since the seventh-generation version of the Mustang Supercar was launched at the Bathurst 1000 last October.

There have been reports of the Camaro being significantly quicker in a straight line, with the VCAT that took place in November doing little to ease Ford's concerns.

- Andrew van Leeuwen, Motorsport.com, 24 Jan 2023
https://www.motorsport.com/v8superca...test/10423948/

What a mess!!!

The lack of wind tunnel testing to ensure drag and downforce numbers are spot on (like LMH/LMDh, GT3, TCR or even the humble BTCC use) is really quite ridiculous.

That Supercars are seemingly doing little to ensure their only committed manufacturer, Ford Performance, are 100% happy and have everything they want is very concerning.

Ford had US-based engine specialist Joe Hendricks at the tests, which commenced last week, working in throttle-mapping of the Herrod Performance-built Ford engines in the quest to paritise the 5.4-litre quad-cam Ford V8 alongside the pushrod OHV 5.7-litre V8 of the Chevrolet Camaro built by KRE Engines.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/01/25...c-gen3-builds/

So much so that Ford Performance have felt the need to send engine and aerodynamics specialists from the USA to monitor the homologation process, such is their lack of confidence in their vehicle not being disadvantaged.

[GTRMagic]

3 weeks til testing

[GTRMagic]

888 Shakedown Next Monday 30 Jan

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

888 Shakedown Next Monday 30 Jan

Concerning! How did they get parts when DJR did not?

Seems suspicious! Surely the last thing the category needs is for 888 to have more data than others.

"The same cannot be said for Shell V-Power Racing Team who have confirmed to V8 Sleuth that they are officially out for January 30th."

Surely more of the Gen 3 car design process should have been allocated to an independent third party like Garry Rogers Motorsport, not a rival competitor like 888 too...

...if GRM had included flaws like the ol' GRM steering rack vibration problem that the likes of McLaughlin learned to ignore, all the better!

According to Jeremy Moore, himself and two others at 888 were involved in a designing a large proportion of the Gen 3 car. The steering rack for example is supposedly a 888 design according to Brad Jones.

[S griffin]

Yes, that is strange how no other team got that data. Surely others have at least as much opportunity as others? But there must be a good reason for it. 888 been in the good books? Or they trust them more with the experience? But there is a conflict of interest there for sure

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yes, that is strange how no other team got that data. Surely others have at least as much opportunity as others? But there must be a good reason for it. 888 been in the good books? Or they trust them more with the experience? But there is a conflict of interest there for sure

T8 are the best team and are without a doubt the group you'd want developing a new platform.... if they weren't active competitors in the series said platform will race in.

As V8 Fireworks said, it SHOULD have been a third party like GRM etc, not the dominant team of the last generation. Not only is it grossly unfair, it feeds the silly conspiracies regarding T8 favouritism (though, if it quacks like a duck...)

The icing on the cake is the joke of VCAT testing - using a runway to test aerodynamics was problematic for Gen2, but they went ahead and used it again. Why?

[Mattracer]

Who could possibly be surprised that the only team able to put a car on the deck is 888? That already gives them an advantage over others as they are one whole test day down the road before the other major teams plus a large percentage of proprietary knowledge in the design and manufacturing plus having Goddard in the team with his knowledge of the prototype.

[banksie]

A group like GRM doesn't have the engineering skills that T8 do. The best teams have been involved and will deliver a great product.

Have items such as the rear wing on the Mustang been signed off yet? If not, no surprise the teams can't hit the track.

But its just a shakedown. Normally they can only do 60km of running. What does it say if PremiAir are also on track with T8?

[chavez]

In any other business if a supplier was using product while their customers waited on the same product there would be outrage.

Yes, the Triple 8 race team is a customer of Triple 8 Engineering, but at best this is a very poor showing from all involved, at worst it places in question the openness, transparency and fairness of the process.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by banksie

A group like GRM doesn't have the engineering skills that T8 do.

GRM have the ability to design and build a car down to a price. They've been doing it for years!

It wouldn't be as shmick as a 888 car, but wouldn't that be part of the charm?

I imagine the front uprights on the GRM Monaros or their V8 Supercars or their S5000 cars wouldn't cost anywhere near and wouldn't need to be priced anywhere near the $50,000 per set that 888 used to charge...

[S griffin]

It is a surprise there isn't more outrage about this. GRM would have been fine, but to give it to 888 is surely giving them an advantage?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by chavez

In any other business if a supplier was using product while their customers waited on the same product there would be outrage.

Yes, the Triple 8 race team is a customer of Triple 8 Engineering, but at best this is a very poor showing from all involved, at worst it places in question the openness, transparency and fairness of the process.

Premi-Air is reportedly ready to test, as is BRT...

DJR built their prototype Ford, how can there be a hold up in building up the race cars?

BJR shows off one or two chassis is some state of build..

Mr Adderton reckons he takes delivery of his Camaro on 24 Feb..
The SuperCheap Camaro.. was that CGI or a real car

Everyone else seems quiet..


Lucky a race meeting isnt 6 weeks away isnt it...

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Premi-Air is reportedly ready to test, as is BRT...

DJR built their prototype Ford, how can there be a hold up in building up the race cars?

Do BRT or any other Mustang runner definitely have the approved and homologated rear wings and front splitters in their possession?