Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 1 Aug 2019, 15:37 (Ref:3920683)   #1426
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 9,719
chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!
i did very much like that during quali several laps were excluded because drivers had exceeded track limits. i hope this continues.

for me this is the way forward...loss of lap times in quali, hand out excessive time penalties during races, DQ from repeat offence and most certainly remove the right for teams to appeal and, imo, within a couple of races the drivers will have more respect for the track limits.

the technology exists and its also the cheaper solution.
chillibowl is online now  
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there
I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2019, 17:54 (Ref:3920698)   #1427
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
It’s a problem though when so many are reported for track limits. Proper run offs for me aren’t necessarily ones that punish drivers, but ones where drivers do not gain an advantage from
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2019, 18:21 (Ref:3920700)   #1428
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,527
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greem View Post
Do remember that bikes run on these circuits too, and they have slightly different characteristics on some surfaces.

My question way back up thread was actually aimed at Mr griffin, anyway...
Ah, but we can never resist a 5 minute argument........
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2019, 19:47 (Ref:3920715)   #1429
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
You could put sheep in the run off areas,wool is very absorbent and springs back after compression.
It would also get a lot of animal lovers watching F1.
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2019, 23:24 (Ref:3920740)   #1430
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,424
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I agree with a lot of the stuff said above and, has been said for a long time now.

Penalty for running off track. Grass walls, slippy surface, whatever.

I like the suggestion the track should be less grippy overall. However I wouldn't encourage this all the time. I'd encourage variation of track surfaces for variety and to make driving and car set-up harder.
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2019, 00:27 (Ref:3920745)   #1431
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam43 View Post
I agree with a lot of the stuff said above and, has been said for a long time now.

Penalty for running off track. Grass walls, slippy surface, whatever.

I like the suggestion the track should be less grippy overall. However I wouldn't encourage this all the time. I'd encourage variation of track surfaces for variety and to make driving and car set-up harder.
Making the track surfaces less grippy overall is simple, remove the aero loading from the cars.

Circuit bumps like Silverstone was beginning to display before the latest billiard table resurfacing seems like the easiest way of making the cars more difficult to set up, try and program random bumps in a simulator some time.

If a slick run off is followed by a sand trap then we should see an off similar to that experienced by Leclerc in Germany. Sand traps are fine for the bikes as well, the specialist bike circuits feature sand traps.
The sentiment that you can fall off the circuit and continue is largely an F1 invention, fall off a bike and it is so bent it is not going anywhere!

I am fine with the fall off and retire scenario, it will make the races much more interesting and introduce risk and skill and reward into F1 racing.
Initially we may have a few safety car periods while they dig the errant out of the gravel tracks, but the drivers will quickly learn that going off is not how you score points and you will not get son many safety car periods.

P.S. Great discussion.

Last edited by wnut; 2 Aug 2019 at 00:43.
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2019, 01:51 (Ref:3920751)   #1432
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 23,144
bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greem View Post
Do remember that bikes run on these circuits too, and they have slightly different characteristics on some surfaces.

My question way back up thread was actually aimed at Mr griffin, anyway...
That's one reason they got rid of gravel-traps and reduced the kerbing, at some tracks like Monza, particularly at the Parabolica. If the rider drops the bike, they can slide off the track.
bjohnsonsmith is online now  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2019, 07:48 (Ref:3920784)   #1433
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
I thought riders preferred gravel as it slows the momentum of them when they fall off. In fact asphalt run off was blamed for Salom's death IIRC
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2019, 11:41 (Ref:3920818)   #1434
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 10,912
Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I thought riders preferred gravel as it slows the momentum of them when they fall off. In fact asphalt run off was blamed for Salom's death IIRC
Yes, but talking about the 2 feet of grass beside the track - if its tarmac, the rider stays on. If it's grass, the rider comes off. Regardless of what the rest of the gravel trap is, the first 2 feet is crucial to what happens to a bike.
Akrapovic is online now  
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2019, 14:17 (Ref:3920829)   #1435
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
That's one reason they got rid of gravel-traps and reduced the kerbing, at some tracks like Monza, particularly at the Parabolica. If the rider drops the bike, they can slide off the track.
The kerbs are a problem for the bikes, the saw tooth kerbs that were good at unsettling cars are a no no for a sliding rider, the gravel traps if prepared flat are not a problem and are still in use at the specialist bike tracks, Aragon for instance. Gravel traps are not a problem for bikes BJ.
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2019, 14:37 (Ref:3920831)   #1436
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 23,144
bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnut View Post
The kerbs are a problem for the bikes, the saw tooth kerbs that were good at unsettling cars are a no no for a sliding rider, the gravel traps if prepared flat are not a problem and are still in use at the specialist bike tracks, Aragon for instance. Gravel traps are not a problem for bikes BJ.
I know kerbs will be a problem but I thought bikes had a tenancy dig into the gravel which could then pitch the rider off the bike.
bjohnsonsmith is online now  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 3 Aug 2019, 00:47 (Ref:3920898)   #1437
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
I know kerbs will be a problem but I thought bikes had a tenancy dig into the gravel which could then pitch the rider off the bike.
Usually the bike goes down well before the trap, the Luis Salom crash at Catalunya was a graphic illustration of the effect of paved run offs put in for cars on slowing down a crashed bike.
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Aug 2019, 12:28 (Ref:3920958)   #1438
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Why can't bikes use catch nets to prevent the rider sliding into solid objects?
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Aug 2019, 12:33 (Ref:3920960)   #1439
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
Well we did have catch fencing back in the day, which was good at slowing cars, but had additional hazards which is why they switched to sand/gravel
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 3 Aug 2019, 19:47 (Ref:3921029)   #1440
midgetman
Veteran
 
midgetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Rural Wiltshire
Posts: 6,778
midgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Catch fencing. Ah yes. They put up barriers to prevent us hitting the trees then planted trees to stop us hitting the barriers.

I remember racing at Silverstone with catch fencing. One Sports 2000 ran a little wide and got wrapped himself up in wire. Took ages to unwind him and wrecked £1k worth of bodywork!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
midgetman is offline  
__________________
Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq!
Quote
Old 3 Aug 2019, 20:02 (Ref:3921031)   #1441
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 23,144
bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I remember going to the 1975 British GP at Silverstone and as it started to rain for the second time, Jarrier went off just after the new chicane at Woodcote and into the catch fencing. One of the wooden poles, holding it in place, flew up in the air and into the grandstand I was sitting in and hit this woman spectator on the forehead. Fortunately it was a glancing blow, otherwise it would have been nasty. It was scary enough as it was.
bjohnsonsmith is online now  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 4 Aug 2019, 07:45 (Ref:3921090)   #1442
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
No wonder they replaced it with gravel, it had it's own hazards. Although it was have saved Patrick Depailler if they hadn't removed it for that particular test session
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 4 Aug 2019, 10:08 (Ref:3921102)   #1443
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
Well we did have catch fencing back in the day, which was good at slowing cars, but had additional hazards which is why they switched to sand/gravel
I can't see where I mentioned cars only bike riders.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Aug 2019, 11:55 (Ref:3921117)   #1444
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
SG is right. There were times when cars were wrapped in the catch fencing and injured drivers were trapped. Since the same tracks are used for bikes and cars there were fears for riders too.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 4 Aug 2019, 12:11 (Ref:3921119)   #1445
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
That's one reason they got rid of gravel-traps and reduced the kerbing, at some tracks like Monza, particularly at the Parabolica. If the rider drops the bike, they can slide off the track.

Look at the BRNO layout that MotoGP is running on this weekend.
Track kerb grass sand trap, no paved runoffs at all.
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Aug 2019, 08:56 (Ref:3921467)   #1446
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
Qatar used to be like that, before plans for F1 to go testing there added in tarmac runoff
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 6 Aug 2019, 05:05 (Ref:3921611)   #1447
sizzle
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Darwin
Posts: 3,525
sizzle should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsizzle should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Maybe they just need to get rid of at least 2 or more of the practice sessions so that teams can't do the long runs needed to work out how long the different tyres last.
sizzle is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Aug 2019, 09:33 (Ref:3921643)   #1448
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
SG is right. There were times when cars were wrapped in the catch fencing and injured drivers were trapped. Since the same tracks are used for bikes and cars there were fears for riders too.
Peter, I made no reference to cars, I have raced cars & karts for many years and was only interested in bike riders as they are the most vulnerable.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Aug 2019, 09:55 (Ref:3921646)   #1449
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Yes I understand.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 14 Aug 2019, 15:03 (Ref:3922729)   #1450
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 9,719
chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!
so do public displays of nationality/citizenship still have a place in F1?

with everything that is going on in the world, is celebrating birth right citizenship 'too political' for a sport that tries to distance itself in every other way from the politics of the world/places they travel to?

more to the point, if a team claims to be born out of Country X, while competing out of Country Y, but is registered (effectively naturalized) in Country Z for tax purposes does it really matter where a driver is from?

i guess the question going forward then is F1 presenting itself as competition space beyond boarders/a truly global competition above the confines of national ideologies more in keeping with the mind set of future generations?
chillibowl is online now  
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there
I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DP's Fix gttouring Sportscar & GT Racing 31 31 Mar 2003 13:52
Is this a fix? Peter S Formula One 28 25 Mar 2003 14:17
Williams trying to "fix car" 2 weeks before Melbourne? Sodemo Formula One 8 28 Feb 2003 10:12
If you want to fix it mtpanorama Road Car Forum 3 17 May 2001 02:09
How to fix F1 Crash Test Formula One 2 24 Jun 2000 23:23


All times are GMT. The time now is 22:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.