Fuel pricing in the UK

[White Van Man]

It's Blair who's letting it get out of hand - did you listen to his speech just now ? The guy's on another planet - he seems unaware of the public feeling.

At the end of the day, if he sends in the troops to drive the wagons, arrests all the protestors, tows away the wagons, etc, what does he think will happen ? Public feeling is that high that he'll find major trunk roads will be blocked, individual petrol stations will be blocked, etc.

He couldn't prevent all of that - he doesn't have the resources...

[Carrie]

Here the radio is giving out 1/4 hour bulletins on which stations have fuel, seems as if it's easiest to get Diesel.
Were trying to keep running on a skeletal staff, but estimate we can only do that until Tuesday of next week at the latest, after that it'll just be the people who live in the village and local town who'll be able to get in. Also on local radio this morning one woman had phoned in the say she'd just heard from her husband who'd got to work (in the building trade) to find that as a result of all of this the firm was laying off 50 staff. This has the potential to affect everyone's jobs (hope things buck up for you soon Sparky), but let's hope companies try to be as understanding as possible to their staff. Getting to work by public transport might not be possible because the buses are rapidly running out of fuel and the trains reckon 48 hours before they're severely affected - plus of course the first shift of train drivers can't run their trains if they can't get into work!!
As for the panic buying, spoke to one of our volunteers this morning and she'd gone to do her weekly shop only to find it was impossible to move in the supermarket because word was rapidly spreading that there was no bread delivery and people were going mad.
There's also news that one milk company is offering to lend out all 40 of their electric floats if it gets to the stage where they could be useful for the emergency services.
The taxi drivers were doing a rolling blockade of the M56 this evening, I'm glad they were a good number of junctions down from me. As has been commented in work, it wouldn't take much for the blockade to move from Trafford Park Fuel Depot out onto the M60 and if they want to cause maximum chaos, they'll do that tomorrow night when United have got a European match. Although I guess if they do that they could risk turning people against them, while it is frustrating, it's good to see that people are still backing the blockades.
Finally, one quote from our local radio this morning
'if you're stuck in a queue for petrol, imagine you're queueing up to run over Gordon Brown'

[White Van Man]

That last line does it for me, Carrie! I might make a sign up and hang it off the back of my truck!

[Carrie]

Did anyone see Breakfast News this morning, it was showing a trucker's blockade (in Hull I think) and one of the wagons had a banner on the front which read "Official Sponsor to the Dome White Elephant" I liked that one

[White Van Man]

How about the 'Go Truck yourself, Gordon Brown!' one ?

[Sarah]

There is one garage in Carmarthen who still has diesel but the police are there only letting the emergency services fill up. The local Tesco has already run out of bread, milk and eggs.

[Invader]

I'm livid....my cat is stuck up a tree and the Fire Brigade refuse to come and rescue Tiddles......I've paid my taxes for 23 years and this is what I get....I blame the French...and the Welsh...

[TimD]

Now I really am starting to think enough is enough.

Several pieces of news this evening have set me to thinking.

Watching a convoy of petrol wagons - agreed to on emergency grounds - running the gauntlet of a baying, jeering mob of "peaceful protesters" was interesting.

The announcement by a haulier that if petrol tankers did attempt to supply filling stations, then the truckers would attempt to barricade individual outlets in order to foil the delivery.

The report that regardless of supplies being maintained for hospitals and ambulances, major operations will still be in danger, because no one has agreed make fuel available for the Blood Transfusion Service.

The protesters have made their point. If the government chooses to do nothing at the next budget, then they know that the nation can be brought to a crashing halt at 36 hours notice. I think it would be a sign of good faith for this to be the end of the action. It's just getting bolshy for the sake of it.



And there is one other piece of news which has coloured my opinion very much tonight. And I would very greatly value your prayers over this.

A very very close friend telephoned tonight, to explain that Goodwood was out of the question this weekend, due to an illness in the family.

Not to put too fine a point on it, his sister has been taken ill with minor fits as symptoms. The necessary tests have been carried out, and what was first thought to be a mild onset of epilepsy has turned out to be a tumour on the brain. What was a mild worry has just been reappraised into a terminal condition, and this young woman has very likely only a few days.

She is in a hospital in Wales. Her three children have to be informed, and my friend has to gather the fuel resources to get himself from Cambridge to Wales. Other sister will be trying to make it from Ipswich to Cambridge. The parents have been informed and will be returning from a holiday in Spain. To London.

Not one of those journeys would be described as a critical emergency in these emergency times. But I am sure I have no need to spell out just how vital it is for that family to come together at this time.

The longer this goes on, the more families are going to find themselves in a situation like this. The worry of finding the fuel to get to a hospital hundreds of miles away in time has only added to the turmoil everyone is experiencing.

Can I ask my friends on this forum to do something? Those of you who have a belief, and who have a prayer life, can I please ask you to remember these people. I shall. I love my friend so very much, and I am desperately fond of his family. I know that prayerful support would mean so much to them at this time.

Which is a very long way of saying that to my mind, the point of the protest has been made.

Sorry.

Thanks for listening,

Tim

[SL]

To All

My neibour has just told me that the service station on the M23 has just received supplies of fuel. I have an almost fulll tank, saved for Goodwood, so I am not that concerned. But maybe useful info for anyone. It is 5 miles southbound from Gatwick.

I dread to think of the tail back in the morning.

SL

[angst]

So, Tony Blair says that for every penny taken off tax on petrol, money will be lost from hospitals/schools etc. So what are ALL the other taxes for. We pay income tax, National Insurance, Council Tax, VAT and duty on alcohol/tobacco plus the tax on fuel. Through our purchases we pay for the tax levied by the government on North Sea oil (yes, that's before it gets to the petrol stations) and business rates. Now what I would like to know is, where the f... is this money going?!!! Yes, I know these things have to be paid for - police, emergency services, health etc. But it seems to me there is an INCREDIBLE amount of wastage and overspending. Bureaucrats and spongers gravtating toward the money like cancer cells, choking the whole economy up. For instance, in my home city the council are building a "millenium square" and spending £11m to £15m. There's going to be some nice trees, a few cafe's and two temporary ice rinks. So where the hell is £11m-15m going?!! And that's another point, figures are constantly blurred/fudged so that nobody really has any idea of how much is actually being spent. The millenium Dome is obviously another huge example of this ridiculous spending. If a business were working to this sort of standard then an auditor would be brought in to clamp down on overspending. What does Mr Blair do, just keep upping the charge to his 'customers' (the tax payer).
Basically Mr Blair should start to look at slashing the huge waste that goes on, and we should have more information as to where all our money goes.....this goes much deeper than the price of petrol.
One other thing, didn't the Labour Party come to power on the promise of no tax increases, and didn't they constantly attack the previous Government for 'tax by stealth' - which is exactly what they are now doing. Tony Blair also said that if this government couldn't manage the Dome, then they weren't fit to manage the country........Hmmmmmmmm.

[SNH]

A friend of mine runs a garage, ran out of nearly all his fuel yesterday. BUT, he phoned his doctor & let him have some. Phoned my wife to see if we needed any. Says for me to call him if I need any.

[enzo]

angst & others :

Sorry to hear that you are going thru the same sh!t that we went thru in '73 with the first "fuel crisis", but angst hit the nail squarely on the head.

If you insist on having the gvernment pay for everything - just like what the Democrats want over here - then you have no choice but to be levied rediculous amounts in taxes, most of which goes to non-productive paper shufflers.

Maybe it's time for another revolution ? Sounds like the Labour Party may be in deep do-do come the next election.

Good luck !

[TimD]

Trouble is, Enzo, the other lot are even worse!

Seriously, part of the problem is not that there is a high level of wastage in public services - the last decade has seen economy drive after economy drive on that score alone. The problem is that the politicians have figured out that they're never going to get elected back in on a ticket of higher income taxes.

Which means the necessary tax revenue has to be found in other ways - hence the high fuel tariffs. Unfortunately, whereas income tax increase would make everyone pay in rough proportion to what they earn, the fuel tax hits the people of whatever income whether their fuel consumption is a luxury or a necessity.

Incidentally, anyone remember why we have 17.5% VAT? It used to be 15%, but the extra 2.5% was a temporary measure to make up the revenue lost when the Conservatives backed down from the "Poll Tax".

So, just how long is "temporary"?

But as regards this week's protests - enough is enough I think. Last night, a filling station in Essex got a tankerful of diesel, and was then inundated with lorries which all filled up, emptied the filling station again, and then went off on a mass 5mph go-slow protest to central London.

Lovely!

And now there are reports from the East Midlands that bank ATM cash machines are starting to run out of money, and the security vans haven't the fuel to make more deliveries....

[TimD]

BTW, just to remove one thing from the equation - the woeful Millennium Dome may be a total waste of money, but at least it isn't a waste of Tax revenues. All of this extra cash being poured into keeping the place open is coming from state lottery receipts, which are ring fenced away from normal government spending.

[Carrie]

It's ridiculous the amount of money that is wasted. All these taxes and yet hospitals / road / public services are a mess and is it any wonder people get annoyed when you read of so many thousands having been spent on doing up some government minister's office etc.
As for the situation here, there seemed a lot of confusion this morning about whether the Stanlow Blockade had been called off or not, haven't heard any more on that through the day. What is becoming clear is that the tanker drivers who are supporting the protest and refusing to make deliveries are being threatened with arrest and the sack.
I mentioned yesterday the time to cause maximum chaos on the M60 Manchester Ring Road would be tonight for Man United's European Match and that is just what is planned, a blockade of the M62, M60 and Trafford Park area. I've just left work early and I'm happy to say that I've managed to avoid getting caught up in that.
I've also driven past 4 tankers on the M60 and the garage near work had a delivery this afternoon, we heard about that at 2:45, by 3:45 it was empty and shut again.
Also, at lunchtime, the local post office near to our work had just received a phonecall to say that postal deliveries can no longer be guaranteed.
What's the situation on the roads Mr White Van Man? Did you make it to Tunbridge Wells? I guess if you were there then you couldn't have been the WVM I was chatting to this morning in Bolton - he was cute

[White Van Man]

Quiet Carrie, very quiet!! Which is excellent - can we have one of these protests each week ?

I'm pleased to report that I did make it to Tunbridge Wells - and I even made it back again - thanks to one of my customers who knew the people running the local garage. A few pound notes later, and I had half a tank full - enough to get me home this evening, but there is basically no Diesel at all in the whole of the south of England now. Resorted to returning to work and draining the dregs out of the fork lift... which doesn't really matter as we no longer have any stock left in the yard...!

Tim, of course it has gone too far - but Blair knows exactly what he needs to do to get thimgs moving again. It looks like the petrol companies are now getting the blame from the goverment for the crisis - is this guy mental - does he not realise that his bosses - you and me - are making their feelings clear. If I were to ignore what my boss wanted, i'd by for the high jump - hmmm... when was that election again ?

[White Van Man]

BTW, I saw a grand total of THREE tankers all day today - one was a Shell petrol tanker, one was a heating oil company, and the other was a Q8 wagon. On a normal day i'd lose count how many I saw. Hardly looks like good old Tony's getting a grip, does it ?

I also heard the rumour on the radio again that Eddie Stobart is on the brink of running dry and is intending to send all 800 of his wagons to join the protest... Now that's support which Blair can't ignore, surely ?

[Sparky]

This is what I beleive should happen now.

The protestors, as a group, should make it clear that they are satisfied that the country is on its knees, and the point has been made. A spokesman should announce that action will cease immediately the moment that Blair agrees to review fuel taxation, but will resume in two weeks time if no government action has been forthcoming.

The protestors are in danger of losing the support of the ordinary man. The public are already miffed at the cost of fuel. They don't need to feel animosity towards the only light at the end of the tunnel. The idea was not to inconvenience the populace, but get a point accross to Blair. This might have been acheived, but must be stopped short of threatening lives indirectly (hospitals, fire services, food, etc)

As I said, it has been shown that action can and will be taken. Blockades should drop, the government should resolve to review taxation, and if they don't, action should be threatened every fortnight until a review takes place.

What do you think?

[SNH]

Altho I agree with the fact that all fuel tax is too high, I can't help thinking that bringing the country to it's knees is wrong. Jobs could be lost, people suffer, doesn't seem the right way to go.

[SNH]

The talk about nurses getting fuel isn't true in all cases either. My wife works as a practice nurse, therefore not employed by the Health Authority & can't get the special fuel. If the pracice closes, the people go to hospitals, causing more strain on staff & resources there.

[Carrie]

So you mean to say that going to the local fancy dress shop to hire a nurse's uniform before setting out in search of a petrol station with fuel isn't going to help then

[White Van Man]

Jobs could be lost, people suffer, doesn't seem the right way to go.

What ? Like they are in the tranport industry due to the ridiculously small margins which we are forced to work on because of the price of fuel and road fund ?

Although i'd love to see us bring the country to it's knees until Lionel Blair starts listening, I fear that he's far too stubborn to back down on this - maybe you're right Sparky. Let's face it, we have the support of the GBP on this matter - i'm sure that they'd be prepared to demonstrate this fact if the goverment refused to reconsider in the two week gap you suggest.

[White Van Man]

Originally posted by Carrie
So you mean to say that going to the local fancy dress shop to hire a nurse's uniform before setting out in search of a petrol station with fuel isn't going to help then

I'm sure the sight of you in a nurses uniform would persuade them to let you have fuel, Carrie... Maybe you can post a photo of you wearing it here so that we can all see what you look like in it

[Carrie]

I'm sure the sight of you in a nurses uniform would persuade them to let you have fuel, Carrie... Maybe you can post a photo of you wearing it here so that we can all see what you look like in it

Sorry, as you're not my White Van Man from this morning (ooh, came over all funny then just thinking about him), I don't think I can oblige

[White Van Man]

That's not very nice of you