CoG Parity...

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Ospi

Yes it was a regulatory problem which has gotten us here in the first place. It's actually not that expensive to product those parts in composite anyway and a lot of places in Aus that produce molds and final products. The other teams are going to inevitably have to go there anyway now.

got a cost estimate?

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by peckstar

significant cost to achieve, Im not sure its easier

Cost estimate?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by sizzle

Cost estimate?

ask Todd Kelly, Im quoting him from the weekend

Nissan Motorsport is in the same position as the Ford squads with team owner Todd Kelly concerned that rival manufacturers may have to outlay extra funds to keep up with Holden.

“It’s not a very smart idea if a car comes in with lighter panels, so the rest of the category has to spend a heap of money to match it,” said Kelly

“That’s the reverse of what it should be. It would be great to make these cars lighter, but that would be at great expense to the other manufacturers and other teams if we need to do that.

However holden teams have already be complaining about the cost of the composite panels from T8, as much as $50K for a set, well up on previous panels

[djr81]

Originally Posted by peckstar

ask Todd Kelly, Im quoting him from the weekend



However holden teams have already be complaining about the cost of the composite panels from T8, as much as $50K for a set, well up on previous panels

So make the Holden teams revert to a steel roof as a starter and everyone's happy?

God forbid anyone ever dents the roof on their otherwise shiney new Commodore road car. Clearly Holden cant get you a new panel out of Opel/Peugeot anytime soon.

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by djr81

So make the Holden teams revert to a steel roof as a starter and everyone's happy?

God forbid anyone ever dents the roof on their otherwise shiney new Commodore road car. Clearly Holden cant get you a new panel out of Opel/Peugeot anytime soon.

No such part exists.

ZBs all have glass roofs as standard.

Stamping one from scratch would be prohibitively expensive. The extra bracing, hinges, etc for the hatch would mitigate any advantage here in theory.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

No such part exists.

ZBs all have glass roofs as standard.

Stamping one from scratch would be prohibitively expensive. The extra bracing, hinges, etc for the hatch would mitigate any advantage here in theory.

I may be looking at the wrong thing but the ones on carsales look to be steel.

EG:
https://www.carsales.com.au/bnc/deta...-5861295/?Cr=2

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by peckstar

ask Todd Kelly, Im quoting him from the weekend



However holden teams have already be complaining about the cost of the composite panels from T8, as much as $50K for a set, well up on previous panels

So you don't know.

T8 want a return on investment, previously Holden didn't really care

[Compromised]

7g for roof/hatch/whatever you'd like to call it

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by djr81

I may be looking at the wrong thing but the ones on carsales look to be steel.

Btw COTF chassis is a bespke racing chassis and panels for a road car may not bolt up to the standard mounting points, and may not even be the same size - VE/F Commodore for example had to be shortened to fit.

VE had 93mm chopped out of it and the ZB has a full 100mm chopped from the centre section.

So this is a bespoke part and pressing it out of steel would be a ridiculous proposition.

[Ospi]

Originally Posted by peckstar

got a cost estimate?

Well I know the cost of the airbox systems used by a lot of the teams, from CAD to car and obviously a composite roof will be more expensive than an existing steel component from the factory, but it also offers the performance advantage. 50k for a complete set of composite panels for a racing car is actually quite cheap and you're not going to be replacing a roof very often at all. For a sport with budgets in excess of 5 mill a season, 10g-15g or so for roofs + molds which are in their eyes a big issue currently would be worth it.

Other teams will always squark about costs and so on because they don't want to have to do a thing, but it's almost always blown out of proportion.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

No such part exists.

ZBs all have glass roofs as standard.

Stamping one from scratch would be prohibitively expensive. The extra bracing, hinges, etc for the hatch would mitigate any advantage here in theory.

weird looking glass

[coln72]

Originally Posted by peckstar

weird looking glass

Yeah, the one in the showroom at work doesn't even have the sunroof.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by coln72

Yeah, the one in the showroom at work doesn't even have the sunroof.

holden website wasnt clear, but that may be the calais

[Umai Naa]

Made an oversight, and I stand corrected.

Not going to sit here for the next three days, arguing about it until the thread gets locked. Carry on, gents.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Btw COTF chassis is a bespke racing chassis and panels for a road car may not bolt up to the standard mounting points, and may not even be the same size - VE/F Commodore for example had to be shortened to fit.

VE had 93mm chopped out of it and the ZB has a full 100mm chopped from the centre section.

So this is a bespoke part and pressing it out of steel would be a ridiculous proposition.

So the floor can be cut and shut but not the roof? How did they make the roof fit on the VE?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

So this is a bespoke part and pressing it out of steel would be a ridiculous proposition.

Stamping would be crazy, you'd make it out of flat sheet metal and use an English wheel if required. Traditional coachwork.

That's how other low volume cars like limousines are created for example. Certainly not getting dies and presses made up!

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by djr81

So the floor can be cut and shut but not the roof? How did they make the roof fit on the VE?

I can't say for certaim but Holden were here and had stamping capability,wbich is no longer the case

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[djr81]

Originally Posted by Mixer

I can't say for certaim but Holden were here and had stamping capability,wbich is no longer the case

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

The same for Nissan and Ford? The walk around Larkham did early in the telecast showed that the bonnet and drivers door were the only non composite panels on the Commodore. Is the bonnet aluminium?

Ryan Storey was even banging on about rain gutters etc which the composite panels don't have apparently.

It comes down to the same old argument. In a parity formula why should teams disadvantaged by a newly homologated car be forced to spend more money to return to the point of parity? Surely that just indicates the parity process has failed.

This is distinct from building new cars which they have done anyway. DJRTP build two new Falcons if I remember rightly and Nissan have atleast one new car in there somewhere.

[Mixer]

Not all of the cars need to be shortened.

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[mayhem]

So to make a car 'fit' in with series regulations, they've not only been not disadvantaged, they've potentially been given a decent advantage over exsiting competitors?

Originally Posted by djr81

In a parity formula why should teams disadvantaged by a newly homologated car be forced to spend more money to return to the point of parity?

All this despite one of the platforms of COTF being to lower costs to teams.

[Mixer]

And if they didn't cut and shut them to give them aerodynamic parity you guys would all complain that they were not equal in that way.

Lose lose.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by djr81

It comes down to the same old argument. In a parity formula why should teams disadvantaged by a newly homologated car be forced to spend more money to return to the point of parity? Surely that just indicates the parity process has failed.

There is no publicly available proof at this stage that anyone has been disadvantaged. There have been rival teams making noise about the new commodore and 888 refuting the rival teams' claims.

888 have been strong at Adelaide for a while now and after struggling through most of last year have come out swinging. We MAY see different results in races to come.

I doubt we'll see any parity related changes after 1 race meeting.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

And if they didn't cut and shut them to give them aerodynamic parity you guys would all complain that they were not equal in that way.

Lose lose.

The Commodore hasn't been cut and shut, it's a much smaller car to start with, like the Volvo S60.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Tourer

There is no publicly available proof at this stage that anyone has been disadvantaged. There have been rival teams making noise about the new commodore and 888 refuting the rival teams' claims.

The sooner the bodywork weights are published, the better! Transparency is key.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

The Commodore hasn't been cut and shut, it's a much smaller car to start with, like the Volvo S60.

Surprisingly:
FGX wheelbase 2838mm
ZB 2829mm
Altima 2775mm