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17 Nov 2008, 21:17 (Ref:2336620) | #1 | ||
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Grp C/Grp A – "Tricks of the Trade" (Merged)
Every now and then I read an article in a magazine or a post on here that makes reference to a “few tricks of the trade” that were used in the Grp C / Grp A days.
I have heard of race cars that had inflatable air bladders in the tanks, windscreen wiper knobs that adjusted boost and RX7’s that had mystery gears. I would love to hear some more of these stories about “modifications” that were utilised back in the day to get that added advantage. Anyone? |
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17 Nov 2008, 23:38 (Ref:2336708) | #2 | |||
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Bob Jane tricks
Quote:
(6) dipped in acid bath to reduce weight. (Story in Muscle Car mag some time back) Gave Pete his last ATCC round win at Sandown if I remember correctly - shades of Seto driving a Holden albeit 20 years earlier. If we can get Thunder Road out from under Bobs Camaro maybe he give us the real story, or maybe his lips remain sealed. Wasnt very forthcoming on the Muscle Car story !! |
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more torque than a climate change conference |
18 Nov 2008, 00:38 (Ref:2336718) | #3 | ||
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I worked in the team of an aging legend for the enduros in 1990, running a very 2nd hand Sierra. Before going to scruitineering particular attention had to be made to placing ballast between the fuel bladder & the outer body of the fuel cell incase too much fuel made its way into the tank.
The co driver also made reference to a small Japanese car that he bought to run in sports sedan saying the fuel tank was 20 ltrs larger than Grp C specs allowed for that car. David |
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18 Nov 2008, 01:15 (Ref:2336730) | #4 | ||
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Great post, I love stuff like this. Although it still happens (ballast plates), the stuff they got away with back then was fantastic. F1 is full of this stuff, but it would be interesting to hear more about Group C/A.
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Phil Mills: 30, 6-Left-Plus Over-Crest-Long, Opens-Over-Crest 100, COW-COW, 100, 6-Left-Minus Extra-Long Fabrizio Giovanardi: I have like a banana - is the yellow car in front - that make me, you know, running like the monkey, running for the banana. When I see yellow in front, I just pushing harder and harder. I want that banana. |
18 Nov 2008, 01:16 (Ref:2336732) | #5 | ||
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Harry Firth tells of the aluminium body parts made for a Le Mans Torana that never made it. Thing is that a few sets of panels went through the presses at Fisherman's Bend and they made it onto some race cars. Harry was quick to point-out that none of them went on the factory cars of course!
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"Either we fly or we die." Jamie Hyneman, Mythbusters, SBS |
18 Nov 2008, 01:20 (Ref:2336734) | #6 | ||
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To name a couple from overseas;
The top 6 BMW's with the lightweight panels which gave Moff & Harves the WTCC round win at Monza. The non standard panels on the Sierra's at Bathurst giving Brock his last win I heard the factory Volvo's ran an extra forward gear where reverse should've been. |
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18 Nov 2008, 02:37 (Ref:2336753) | #7 | ||
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One that I've from time to time is the old Halon fire bomb mounted in front of the intercooler. Was used a lot at the start of Conrod to get the extra grunt and speed. Drive would just set the fire bomb off inside via the regular switch.
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It's all about speed! Hot, nasty bad-ass speed!! Velociraptor Performance Industries |
18 Nov 2008, 03:49 (Ref:2336767) | #8 | ||
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A lot of this stuff went on Europe during Group C/A. Teams/manufacturers knew that the others had 'various modifications' but they themselves were doing the same thing!! I have heard about the 'windscreen wiper knob used to turn up the boost trick' but I can't remember who they were talking about, hopefully someone on here does.
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Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly." |
18 Nov 2008, 04:16 (Ref:2336775) | #9 | ||
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Quote:
With the eggenberger sierra`s in `87 , i read somewhere that when they went to calder the weekend after bathurst that they were still in the same trim as raced at bathurst,was anything said/done to the cars at calder or was it only bathurst ?... Thanks... |
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18 Nov 2008, 04:19 (Ref:2336776) | #10 | ||
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Quote:
I might be wrong but i`m pretty sure that i read (it may have been on here ) that Peter Brock was the one done for the windscreen wiper knob/boost control.. Thanks... |
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18 Nov 2008, 04:25 (Ref:2336777) | #11 | ||
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You werent allowed to lean on the Swiss Sierras either, for fear of denting the roof.
People wondered how Moff ran bigger rubber on the back of his coupes than anyone else. Apparently he pumped up the petrol tank untill they popped which narrowed the tank & then used a combination of the genuine inner rear guard panels swapped left front halve to right rear & vice versa, which gave him a mini tubbed rear area & didnt break the rules as no metal had been cut or added & used genuine parts. David |
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18 Nov 2008, 05:47 (Ref:2336783) | #12 | |
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Some of the VL commodores had the headlights mounted very low so there was a gap big enough to put your hand between the top of the headlight and the nosecone, presumably to get more airflow into the engine compartment, I remember being at the Sydney Motor Show looking at the Grice/Percy car which had just won Bathurst. I pointed this out to a friend and when Win Percy who was on the stand saw us discussing it, he looked up and walked away.
Then of course there was the Masterton Falcon where a part of the centre section of the front bumper was hinged to let more air past at speed. |
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18 Nov 2008, 06:07 (Ref:2336785) | #13 | |
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The championship winning Shell Falcons of Johnson and Bowe had bonnets that were one inch shorter than standard to allow for better airflow into the engine's intake.
The results stood that year although DJR were forced to run the normal length bonnets once the irregularity was discovered. |
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18 Nov 2008, 06:19 (Ref:2336788) | #14 | |||
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Quote:
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"The Great Race" 22 November 1960 - 21 July 1999 |
18 Nov 2008, 07:09 (Ref:2336794) | #15 | |||
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Quote:
Fred Gibson, in recent interviews, has been very open on the fact that the Nissan Bluebirds were less than legal. |
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18 Nov 2008, 09:02 (Ref:2336836) | #16 | |||
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19 Nov 2008, 01:31 (Ref:2337352) | #17 | ||
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Think this one was production racing based but there have been stories of cars being able to adjust the rev limit by changing the radio station on the stereo........
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Think drifting is tough. Try it on gravel, in the dark, amonst trees............... |
19 Nov 2008, 02:06 (Ref:2337372) | #18 | |
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Sorry to be a bit off thread, but this is a great article about cheating in NASCAR in the early days.....the king of reading between the lines in the rule book was the late Smokey Yunick.
A good laugh! http://www.circletrack.com/ultimater...ick/index.html |
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19 Nov 2008, 03:08 (Ref:2337383) | #19 | |||
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Quote:
The story is outlined in the 1995 edition of The Great Race. The story goes that the category scrutineer was at one of the major Ford team workshops when he noticed that all the new body panels had 'do not lean here' (or words to that effect) tags on them. Panels that had come straight from the factory... A panelbeater by trade, the scrutineer knew that something wasn't right. After some investigation, it was found that Ford had been producing special thinner-gauge glass, panels, and - gasp! - bodyshells since the inception of the category. This meant that every Ford Falcon racecar built for the category using a Ford Motorsport bodyshell (which was all of them except Garry Willmington's, who had built his from a road car) was technically illegal! And this was only weeks before Bathurst! (As an aside, Holden admitted to doing much the same thing, but had allegedly stopped the practice before Ford's indiscretions came to light.) The reason for this was to get the Falcon - a heavier car than the Commodore - down to the minimum weight. The solution was to make the illegal cars carry ballast whilst letting them continue competing, as banning them this close to the biggest race of the year would have been disasterous for Ford, Holden, the category, and the entire event. It makes you think about some of the early-build Falcons that were written off in accidents over the years, particularly Johnson's car at Bathurst in '93. Last edited by William Dale Jr; 19 Nov 2008 at 03:13. |
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19 Nov 2008, 21:24 (Ref:2337915) | #20 | |||
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Quote:
Slightly off topic (not Grp A/C) but a Stewards finding was left posted on the notice board at Bathurst for nearly 2 years that found a Mustang was fitted with an illegal brake bias control set up to look like the ciggie lighter on the dash. Another old trick with the Group E VL turbo Commodores was to fit a resistor in line with one of the sensor wires hidden in the wiring loom it had the effect of increasing the turbo boost |
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20 Nov 2008, 00:46 (Ref:2338066) | #21 | |
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Didn't Larry have brake lights that will go on a little after he applied the middle pedal, to try and suck people behind him into going a little deep under brakes?
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"It was dry for the second go-around. Grice, nervous, worrying about his Bathurst jinx, ran 2:25.9. The amazing Brock, using every last centimetre of bitumen, yet keeping the car straight and balanced and at full noise, came back with a staggering 2:20.0 as if to say: "Match that". And people just shook their heads, bit their lips and wondered who would be second". RIP Peter Brock. 1945-2006 |
20 Nov 2008, 01:17 (Ref:2338070) | #22 | ||
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Didn't help him when the flaggies worked out he was using them as his turn in marker for Dandy Rd several years ago so they moved the point closer to the corner mid session and he ended up in the gravel trap
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20 Nov 2008, 10:14 (Ref:2338216) | #23 | ||
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Quote:
Don't agree with cheating, but do think that ingenuity is great as per the moffat story, pumping up fuel tank to fit wider tyres. |
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20 Nov 2008, 11:17 (Ref:2338244) | #24 | ||
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Wasn't that why Mick Webb used to get in Moff's mazda at the end of every race win - to disconnect all the illegal stuff?????
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What if there were no hypothetical questions? |
20 Nov 2008, 11:24 (Ref:2338252) | #25 | ||
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i recon that this is the best thread ever on 10tenths... keep em coming!
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Cheers, Marty Go the Datto!!! |
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