Tiga

[Chris Townsend]

Tigas in Atlantic - shall we explode a myth about Andretti? There isn't a chassis number 2 FA Tiga [Tiga's numbering system worked like Ralt's, sequentially regardless of model]

1983 USA there is one car [FA82-211 I think] for Garvin Brown and initially driven by Mike Rosen till a Ralt shows up. This then [I think] becomes Ed Pimm's 'Sleep Cheap' car. This is the car [211] used by Hubert Phipps in early 83 in NZ races
Peter Hastrup also has an FA82, William Ayoub's car is also an FA82 and as they don't appear together I think they might be one and the same. One of these two cars is presumably the source of Damon Meek's FA82 in 1985 SCCA
1983 UK there is one car, so far, an FA82 used by Neil Crang. [Number anyone?]
1983 Australia Alfredo Costanzo has what appears to be a genuine FA83

1982 USA Garvin Brown has a new FA82 at Long Beach - probably 211. This is the Andretti car, which qualifies 12th and gets stuck in gear on the grid. Hubert Phipps takes the car over at Mexico City and uses it for rest of season. Except perhaps at Westwood, where Danny Sullivan races a Tiga. I'm guessing that with Sullivan's Can Am connections to Garvin Brown this was one of their cars, but by now there might be two FA82s in the camp.
1982 Australia, Costanzo has both an FA81 and FA82. At Calder AGP he uses the FA81 and Neil Crang is in an FA82 [though this might be a car out of the British series]
1982 UK. Driller Sheldon has FA81-164 updated to FA82 spec. Neil Crang debuts a new FA82 at Silverstone in May.

1981 Australia Alf Costanzo has FA81-161 the first Atlantic Tiga built though not the first to race.
1981 UK Ian Taylor debuts FA81-164 [the second Atlantic Tiga] at Brands in March [and boy did it rain]
This car goes to the Far East races end of season with John Sheldon and comes back again.
I have no record of any Tigas in USA

I think the total build is
FA81 - 161
FA81 - 164
FA82 - 211 Garvin Brown
FA82 - Second Garvin Brown car
FA82 - Costanzo possibly [maybe just updated 81]
FA82 - Crang [British series then AGP]
FA83 - Costanzo
and that's it.

Chris

[David McKinney]

My (perhaps confusing) note on the Phipps NZ car says:
“An interesting newcomer to New Zealand was the latest-model Tiga, in the hands of Hubert Phipps. Entered by Kiwi Dave White, chief mechanic for the Garvin Brown team in the United States... Phipps has been racing an ‘82 model in the States and was confident the newer car, which appeared to be little different apart from having a new nose, was a Ralt-beater. For the record, the dark blue car’s chassis number is FA82-211”
- New Zealand Motoring News 21 January 1983

My report of the 1981 AGP mentions two FA81s entered by Alan Hamilton (Porsche Cars Australia). One was the red car driven by Costanzo but the other, for Geoffrey Brabham, wasn’t completed in time. Presumably at least one of these became an FA82...

I can’t put my hands on my 1982 AGP report which is a pity, as I remember talking to Neil Crang about his car, and thought he said it was brand new. I probably noted the chassis no., too...

[Chris Townsend]

David

Thanks, your report on the Phipps car suggests that it was the second of the Garvin Brown cars from 82, and therefore not the Andretti car at Long Beach! The Costanzo car at 81 AGP was 161 [that's the source of my number]. Might the Sheldon car have gone on to Australia for the AGP [as many other cars did from Macau that year] and been intended for Brabham?

[David McKinney]

I believe the Hamilton/Costanzo team retained both FA81s for two or three years, one as a spare, and possibly one becoming an FA82. Which would tend to rule out the possibility of it going elsewhere.
On the other hand, Neil Crang was a partner (or at least a director) of Tiga, so could have been on hand to supervise any shuffling to and fro.

[Bryan Miller]

Tiga cars and Australian Grand Prix .

1981 , 8th Nov.

Alf Costanzo Tiga FA 811-161.

1982 , 7th , Nov.

Alf Costanzo Tiga FA81 -183.
Neil Crang Tiga FA82- 200.


We now have 4 Tiga Atlantics here , due to Melbournite David Doughtfire bringing 2 x cars in last year as a job lot from the states and the two still remaining Costanzo cars , one in Western Australia running in Historic , and the other in Sydney with Ian Ross , this car coming from South Australia to Ian who purchased it to access the Repco V8 with which it was fitted for another of his projects, the Repco having been fitted for hillclimbing.

[Chris Townsend]

So Tiga F. Atlantics now look like this, I think. 7 or 8 built

FA81 - 161. Costanzo from new and kept 1982
FA81 - 164 Ian Taylor 1981 then John Sheldon in Far East and UK 1982 season
FA81 - 183 Costanzo spare car kept to 1982

FA82 - 200 Neil Crang, perhaps for UK season as well as AGP
FA82 - the first Garvin Brown car. Probably the car used by Michael Andretti at Long Beach, probably the car used 1983 by Peter Hastrup and William Ayoub, and by Damon Meek 1985
FA82 - 211 The second Garvin Brown car, used by Phipps NZ 1983 and perhaps the car the team ran for Rosen and Pymm in USA that season
FA82 - UNK new for Costanzo 1982, maybe one of the 81 series updated

FA83 - UNK new for Costanzo 1983 maybe another update of older car

Bryan can we get numbers and provenances of those cars imported from the US to Australia?

[Bryan Miller]

Chris,

Answer to one of your questions.

Tiga FA83.

Quote '' The new Tiga FA83 is really an FA 81 based Jim Hardman built tub with the FA 83 rear suspension and FA81 front end '' , this car first turned a wheel on the Wenesday prior to the 49th A.G.P. Nov 18th Calder.

No chassis number recorded in Australian Motor Racing Yearbook.

Jim Hardman told me some years ago he had spent about 2 years with Jo Marquart at Modus , Jim is still very active and as I type rebuiding a Lola T610 sports racing cars for new owner for Phillip Island next weekend.

[Bryan Miller]

Sorry , that will not make a lot of sense unless I explain .

Rd. 1 Australian Drivers C/ship at Adelaide 1/7/1984 Costanzo had both cars , FA81 and FA 83 for practice , Costanzo preferred the older car , despite being slightly quicker in the new car , ended up using FA81 in race.
Rd. 2 , Lakeside , 22/7/1984 , Costanzo in FA81 and new teammate Lucio Cesario in FA 83 , but nowhere is a note of chassis number , Costanzo broke driveshaft doing a second burnout to get rear tyres up to temp, and Cesarios rear wing was damaged after an ''off'' .

However Porsche Cars Australia [ sponsor ] had made a statement earlier in the weekend that the FA 83 was fine, but in fact a descision had been made to not run the car again untill something had been done about the lack of rigidity in the tub.

Bryan.

[Bryan Miller]

More Tiga,

Rd. 1 1982 National series , Costanzo's car is defined as FA81/82 , however for the rest of the year it is simply called an FA 81.

I n the report for the A.GP. discussing Crang's FA 82 , it was described as little different from the Alan Hamilton owned pair of FA81 's .

However the new to come FA 83 , ''we have been told '' will be completely new.

[Bryan Miller]

David Doughtfire has advised info re his 2 Tiga's as follows.

Tiga FA82/202 ,

Sold originally to Garvin Browns racing team and was raced professionally in the Pro- Atlantic series by them.
Incidentally Michael Andretti was a driver for Garvin Brown , but David has no proof that Andretti drove this car , although Howden Ganley believes he did.

Car then went to Rick Bowers and Damon Meek .

Then to Ken Ward who raced it in SCCA from 1990 till the car passed to Gary Dormandy who raced the car till the end of 1996 in SCCA in California.

Then purchased from Dormandy by Doughtfire.

Tiga FA 82/209.

Sold originally to Bill Fickling , first race at Riverside , Nov. 1982, wich was a 1 1/2 hour enduro which the car won , co-driver was Pete Hastrup.

Following owners are,

R. Bettendorf.
Steve Hostleter.
Richard Dragovich.
Gaetano Gambrioli.
Mike Spencer-Smith.
Bruce Trenery
Tom Tompkins.

David has all the log books and this car seems to have only had 27 race meetings in it's entire history.

Bryan Miller.

[Dan Rear]

Re the Tiga F Ats, from Chris's list above, do you think the -211 car was another one still. Assuming -202 is the one Chris describes as 'the first Garvin Brown car', and -211 is the 'second Garvin B car', the Fickling one, -209, must be another distinct one.

It now looks like 3 FA81s, 4 FA82s, plus 1 FA83. I'm assuming the 'FA82' Chris describes as possibly his FA81 updated, was in fact the latter.

Btw, who was Bill Fickling does anyone know. Did he have connexions to Ganley/Tiga, perhaps via a S2000 car ?? Seems odd that he'd order a Tiga rather than an RT4, given how well the RT4 went compared to the Tiga, or perhaps, like us, he just liked some grid-variety !!

[Chris Townsend]

Bryan and Dan,

the Garvin Brown car as 202 makes sense - as you'll see I postulated that there was one of unknown number. What I missed was that in his report of the NZ series Dave McKinney commented that Phipps's 211 was new for that series, not the car used in North America. This numbering makes sense with Fickling's SCCA car. So, it is more than likely that, unless Garvin Brown had a spare FA82 bought at the same time as 202, 202 was the Andretti AND Danny Sullivan car from the 1982 US season

Chris

[allenbrown]

I just reread this thread and spotted the name William Ayoub as a driver of a FA82 in 1983. Reading on, the suggestion seem to be that he drove 202 but I'm not sure if that's confirmed.

The reason I'm interested is that Ayoub appears at the Trois Rivieres Can-Am race in Sep 1984 in a Tiga and I'd like to be able to pin down which car he used that day. Richard Revi appeared at the same race, also in a Tiga. I'd always assumed these were S2000 cars but now I'm wondering if they could have been converted Atlantics.

Allen

[Chris Townsend]

I think we have rather more Tiga Atlantics than we bargained for, especially in the USA!

In spring 1983 the ownership situation looks like this

161 Costanzo spare car [used at Oran Park 83]
164 Sheldon [UK]
183 Costanzo main car [chassis number given 83 AGP, but advised that new 83 model used in practice - this may of course be 161 updated]
200 Crang [UK]
202 Garvin Brown sold to Rick Bowers and then Damon Meek.
209 Bill Fickling [as Fickling was the Tiga importer this might be the car that appears for Peter Hastrup and then William Ayoub [entered by WITS Tiga] in 83 pro races. If not, what is this car?]
211 Garvin Brown [used by Rosen at Riverside 23 April; Pimm Sears Point 8 May; Pimm Trois Rivieres 3 Sept, so can't be the Ayoub car which appears alongside]

Nice and tidy so far? Add this!

In 1982 Garvin Brown fields two Tigas at Elkhart 25 July [Phipps and Grunnah] and Westwood 22 August [Phipps and Sullivan] This could be 211 arriving in July, but if so, why does Fickling not get 209 until November? And why do the Garvin Brown team tell David McKinney that 211 is a revised, brand new car, in the NZ series in January 83 - and if 209 is delivered OCt/Nov 82, then 211 makes sense in that sequence. So, is there another FA82 numbered somewhere between 202 and 209?

Then
f/s OT 10.3.83 p. 45 R.T. Capone Racing, 100 W. 8th St, Riviera Beach, FL 33404 Tiga FA82
Damon Meek f/s OT 10.3.83 p. 45 FA82 available after 22.2.83 for sale or rent for W.Coast Pro Races
since these are at opposite ends of the country, at the same time, they surely can't be the same car. The Meek car could be 209 but why is he selling/renting it rather than P1 Racing which was/still is Bill Fickling's organisation. It could be Meek handling a Garvin Brown car which is made redundant by the return of 211 from NZ.

I think there has to be at least one, maybe two extra cars here.

Chris

[Dan Rear]

Very slightly O/T, but what about the F381, that Jim Weaver used in a couple of late season F3 races in '81. Was this junked, or perhaps converted to an FAt car? Anyone note the chassis no. ?

[John Pyke]

Hi Chris and Dan
I now have FA82-202 from David Doubtfire here in Melbourne,
I also looked at FA82-211 recently for sale in Long Isand USA but dont know much of its history, any more updates?

[Chris Townsend]

Welcome John

Sadly we can't give any more about 211 at the moment than it is ther Garvin Brown car used in the pro races in 1983 [results now up on oldracingcars.com] and in NZ winter series.

I don't think it can be the William Ayoub car, because that appears in Atlantic in 83 at same time as Ed Pimm in 211 and is probably the basis of a Can Am car in 84, before reappearing in Atlantic guise later in the 1980s.

Chris

[John Pyke]

Thanks for the reply,
i am looking for race results for FA82-202 in the USA in 1982, 83, 84. Particuly the 1982 Long Beach races can you help here?

[Chris Townsend]

John

We think that 202 has to be the first of the Garvin Brown team cars.
Michael Andretti 36th Long Beach, 0 laps, gearbox
Hubert Phipps, 3rd Mexico City
Hubert Phipps, 6th Mosport
Hubert Phippps, 4th Montreal [not a lot wrong with this car, given Phipps' lack of experience]
Hubert Phipps, 7th Mid Ohio
Elkhart Lake the team has a second Tiga and run Tommy Grunnah alongside Phipps, don't know who used which car but Grunnah 19th and Phipps 23rd [8 laps only]
Westwood they run Sullivan [5th] and Phipps [21st 8 laps suspension failure]
After this Phipps appears at Trois Rivieres [17th 21 laps, suspension again]; 12th Mosport but these might be in the newer car.

Chris

[John Pyke]

Thanks Chris, i assume these are From 1982 mondial series.
ithink i have veiwed the 1983 mondial series, do you have any thing from 1984. Is it possible to get photo copies of these results?

[allenbrown]

The 1983 Mondial series and the 1984 WCAR series are here: http://www.oldracingcars.com/results...?CategoryID=KP

Allen

[Chris Townsend]

John

Those are indeed 1982 results. There are two races Mosport and Mid Ohio where the results are incomplete which is why they haven't been posted on ORC yet. There may be another Garvin Brown Tiga lurking in the gaps...

Chris

[John Pyke]

Thanks for all the help,
Do you think like me that ,
Tommy Grunnah,
Sullivan,
Ed Pimms,
Mike Rosen,
were the drivers of Fa82-211 ? in 1982-83.

Hubert Phipps drove Fa82-202 in 1982.
Also is it likley that Willam Ayoub drove Fa82-202 in 1983
and if this is correct there may have been only the 3 tigas in the USA ?

What do you think?

[spook]

There is another Tiga here in Australia.

It was driven by Vern Schuppan in the Macau Grand Prix before coming here.

It is described as a F383 model in a 1984 entry list at Lakeside Raceway and ran in the Australian Formula 2 class, not the AF1 (Pacific) class.

I will be talking further with the owner soon, and will advise chassis number.

[Chris Townsend]

Spook

Excellent! This problem car raced at Macau in 1982 and as both Sheldon and Crang were there with their regular FA81s I always figured that Hamilton, who ran Costanzo, had rented a car to L.C.Kwan for Schuppan to drive.

It's described in race reports of Macau as an FA81.

John

I think that there are four Tiga FA82s at loose in the US by early 1983
202 Rick Bowers/Damon Meek
The second Garvin Brown car from 1982 with Ayoub
209 Fickling P1 Racing
211 Garvin Brown car new in NZ series

Chris