[WEC] BR1 Dallara LMP1

[carbsmith]

BR Dallara testing
https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...p1-car-961370/
Looks extremely like the P2 car everywhere except inside the front fenders where the front crush box has been lengthened and sculpted and the brake ducts have been moved to the fenders to clean up the middle area.

[Damian Baldi]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

BR Dallara testing
https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...p1-car-961370/
Looks extremely like the P2 car everywhere except inside the front fenders where the front crush box has been lengthened and sculpted and the brake ducts have been moved to the fenders to clean up the middle area.

It's not a surprise, I expected more differences, but it's something normal, as we saw with the Rebellion R-one, the more noticeable changes are around the engine.

They said this car will use a totally new tub.

[silente]

they will hopefully try to have some more downforce on the front than with the LMP2...

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by silente

they will hopefully try to have some more downforce on the front than with the LMP2...

Aren't new lmp1 allowed to use DRS on rear wing and something like that also on front wing?

about weight, it doesn't matter so much actually....

kolles lmp1 was always discreetly over weight and very likely R-one was close to 850kg only during his first season with the TMG engine.

[S griffin]

I wondered what happened, they seemed to go a bit quiet, unlike the Manor Ginetta which has always been there

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I wondered what happened, they seemed to go a bit quiet, unlike the Manor Ginetta which has always been there

Nose to the grindstone testing the car I'd guess, plus I don't think they intended to sell the car to other customers (at least in the first season); Ginetta made more noise as they did want to sell cars.

[Mike E]

Their choice of engine is puzzling to me. That P60 sounds great but at 2.4 litres can it be competitive against 3 litre NISMO and 3.4 litre Mecachrome?

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Their choice of engine is puzzling to me. That P60 sounds great but at 2.4 litres can it be competitive against 3 litre NISMO and 3.4 litre Mecachrome?

Hard to say, aer and nismo are two really different engine.
According to some rebellion onboard, the p60 is a high rev engine; in those video the engine was revving up to 8000rpm to push about 600hp and because of that I expect a flat torque release for most of low-mid rpm range, but anyway lower than 600Nm.
Nismo-Cosworth engine is the exact reverse, a true dyno motor. It revs at about 7000rpm and was punshing in a range a 700hp this year in the CLM; it developes no less than 800Nm at low-mid rpm for sure.

About the mecachrome unit, it's a single turbo mounted on the AER derivated old gp3 engine, that had 400hp@8000rpm.
Considering the low torque - high rev nature of the NA engine, I expect to see it work as the aer p60 or the ford gt engine.

[chernaudi]

Toyota's V6 is 2.4 liters, but they also have a hybrid system.

[Victor_RO]

Don't forget cooling. Look at what Joest have been saying about the Mazda/Riley DPI, basically they were saying the engine needed 30% more cooling to function correctly and that was one of the major overhauls they did for re-homologation. Quite possible that the AER's issues were at least in part linked to that as well?

[bentley speed 8]

AER engines in both the Mazda and Bykolles were prone to BBQ quite often, so I expect that they did have some cooling issues

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by bentley speed 8

AER engines in both the Mazda and Bykolles were prone to BBQ quite often, so I expect that they did have some cooling issues

You miss Judd. I can tell.

[TF110]

Tomorrow night reveal at Bahrain guys! Looking forward to this!

[bentley speed 8]

Here's a teaser... it does show a lot of the car. Pretty boxy shape, just like the Dallara P217

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/s...ead-of-launch/

[joeb]

Originally Posted by bentley speed 8

Here's a teaser... it does show a lot of the car. Pretty boxy shape, just like the Dallara P217

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/s...ead-of-launch/

I would hardly call that a teaser, they actually showed the car! I think we pretty much expected it to be a derivative of the P2 car, and that isn't a bad thing necessarily. Use those lessons and make it better.

[Victor_RO]

Dragonspeed will use the BR1 in the 2018-19 season. http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/1...1-assault.html Sounds like it will run an uprated Gibson V8.

[Canada ALMS fan]

^Great news! Nice to see all the privateers that are stepping up to LMP1 after the manufacturers have left. Having a quasi-spc P2 is ruleset is surely helping too. Nice to see folks still want to race in class with bespoke cars.

[Victor_RO]

Actually, as it turns out, the Gibson V8 is an all-new engine:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/1...p1-engine.html

4.5 liters.

(Resurrection of the old Zytek pre-2011 LMP1 engine?)

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Actually, as it turns out, the Gibson V8 is an all-new engine:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/1...p1-engine.html

4.5 liters.

(Resurrection of the old Zytek pre-2011 LMP1 engine?)

Yeah basically it should be a fuel flow updated version of the engine used in the old ginetta gz09s. Can't remember released figures, but in 2008 or 2009 it was something like 630hp @ 9500 or 10000rpm and about 580Nm.

Good to them if they have been able to throw out reliabile 700hp from a so small unit.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Actually, as it turns out, the Gibson V8 is an all-new engine:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/1...p1-engine.html

4.5 liters.

(Resurrection of the old Zytek pre-2011 LMP1 engine?)

Originally Posted by canaglia

Yeah basically it should be a fuel flow updated version of the engine used in the old ginetta gz09s. Can't remember released figures, but in 2008 or 2009 it was something like 630hp @ 9500 or 10000rpm and about 580Nm.

Good to them if they have been able to throw out reliabile 700hp from a so small unit.

I think this is great to see some more engine variety, but the DSC article seems to say it is based on the current P2 not the old engine:

he Gibson GL458 engine is a 4.5 litre development of the UK-based company’s highly successful ‘global’ LMP2 spec 4.2 litre V8

[knighty]

Originally Posted by joeb

I think this is great to see some more engine variety, but the DSC article seems to say it is based on the current P2 not the old engine:

Hmmmm......I think dragonspeed are being incredibly brave with the gibson LMP1 engine.....ironically they won LMP2 at lemans a few years back with a turbo V6 Honda engine,there is no logical reasoning to link high revving NA engine to finishing and reliability.....does not add up for me, but none the less it will be interesting to compare with the AER unit in the same chassis. I dont expect the fuel consumption to be great.

The gibson 4.5 will need a direct injection conversion to be competitive, so thats new heads and pistons straight away, and a lot of development time, so to get all that ready and reliable for the start of the WEC season is already tight in terms of timing.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by knighty

Hmmmm......I think dragonspeed are being incredibly brave with the gibson LMP1 engine.....ironically they won LMP2 at lemans a few years back with a turbo V6 Honda engine,there is no logical reasoning to link high revving NA engine to finishing and reliability.....does not add up for me, but none the less it will be interesting to compare with the AER unit in the same chassis. I dont expect the fuel consumption to be great.

The gibson 4.5 will need a direct injection conversion to be competitive, so thats new heads and pistons straight away, and a lot of development time, so to get all that ready and reliable for the start of the WEC season is already tight in terms of timing.

Actually aer p60 is a quite high rev engine despite being twin turbo.
In 2015-2016 in the back of rebellion, drivers shifted up close to 8000rpm.
Engine was however powerful and had a good fuel miliage overall (the usual stint window of about 40-45 minutes, can't remember if it was a 75L fuel tank or larger). If the power target will be raised up to 700hp, guess will be required a larger fuel tank.
Gibson, no matter if a updated old 4.5 or modified more recent 4.2, will need to rev up close if not over 10000rpm. Of coure could be required a larger fuel tank as well (or maybe not.... cadillac dpi this year started with a 75L fuel tank and received a 64L nerf.... but however kept the same fuel milliage for some unknwon reason).

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by knighty

Hmmmm......I think dragonspeed are being incredibly brave with the gibson LMP1 engine.....ironically they won LMP2 at lemans a few years back with a turbo V6 Honda engine,there is no logical reasoning to link high revving NA engine to finishing and reliability.....does not add up for me, but none the less it will be interesting to compare with the AER unit in the same chassis. I dont expect the fuel consumption to be great.

The gibson 4.5 will need a direct injection conversion to be competitive, so thats new heads and pistons straight away, and a lot of development time, so to get all that ready and reliable for the start of the WEC season is already tight in terms of timing.

Was waiting to hear you chime in on the engine plan with Gibson. And BR's choice of the AERs, great power but seems like they run a LOT hotter than others but with their own chassis specific cooling needs can be designed in from the start. I haven't had a chance to read the DSC article about it and their plans, stupid network times out on DSC every time here at work. But your insight does help those of us without deep engine knowledge and is always looked forward to.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Was waiting to hear you chime in on the engine plan with Gibson. And BR's choice of the AERs, great power but seems like they run a LOT hotter than others but with their own chassis specific cooling needs can be designed in from the start. I haven't had a chance to read the DSC article about it and their plans, stupid network times out on DSC every time here at work. But your insight does help those of us without deep engine knowledge and is always looked forward to.

Well, im not saying the AER P60 is the right choice either!.....i believe its too small on capacity which requires the high revs and lack of low-speed torque......i think tbe nissan-cosworth 3.0 and mechachrome 3.4 turbo V6 motors will be better motors to have in 2018.....hopefully Kolles will buy a better LMP1 chassis for the Nissan motor to shine in.

[canaglia]

Anyway given by the fact that BR1 is a slightly modified dallara lmp2, hope that rebellion too may follow this route with an oreca 07 chassis powered by this 4.5L V8.

So what's about next year lmp1 so far?

x2 toyota
x1 CLM (not confirmed yet but likely)
x1 manor ginetta
x1 dragonspeed BR1
x1 SMP BR1

Rumored
x1 second manor ginetta
x1-x2 another ginetta team

Unlikely rumors
x1 oreca lmp1 effort