Group A Rover SD1/Vitesse Rally History (sep from main thread)

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by Red Throbber

Looking at the showcar again, I'd agree it looks like 565, with the larger Ø inner headlights in the NADA pods, as used by Duez at Ypres.

I'm pretty sure your right, as is my suggestion that I doubt that they'd have had time to fix '565' for the Motor Fair display outing prior to the Lombard RAC Rally. I'll have to dig out some photos of '564' from 1985 and see what that looked like in comparison.

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by Red Throbber

One I've not seen before from 84 Manx...

You didn't win this Autosport 1984 RAC Rally Guide on ebay recently did you 'Red'? I tried to bid for one, but missed out...

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by KA

Brilliant!!! Great work David, and thanks to Roy for allowing the use of the pic.

No problems KA. I'll either pass on your praise to Roy, or I'll try again to get him to sign up and introduce himself on here.

Originally Posted by KA

Yes, I see what you mean about the change of wheels from the road section to SS1. As I remember, the 'post-tree' pic featured in one of those short historical pieces on the back page of Autosport a year or two back, with a description of the incident by Rob Arthur- I think he mentioned the tyre choice for the first stage being a big factor in what happened?

I remember that article - I'll try and dig it out.

Originally Posted by KA

I guess the combination of clearance for the tailgate fastenings and the catches for the hinged flap over the fuel fillers (something that I'd never really noticed on the rally cars!) would have accounted for it though?

Nice to know that I've found something else that you've not seen before mate - a very rare occurence! I'll have to dig out some photos of '565' as it is now...

[MG Rover Sport]

250 posts - I can now have a custom avatar!

[Red Throbber]

Here we are, a new clip of the 84 RAC I've never seen before. Keep going until about 2.00, when we see TP in the trees. Keep watching, as we get to see TP try and start it at the end of the stage, but cracked battery (least of his problems you would of thought) stopped it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPgce...ac-rally-1984/

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

250 posts - I can now have a custom avatar!

Great avatar David. (Presumably you'll be using the reverse of that for any logo's that appear on the right-hand-side?)

[MG Rover Sport]

That's a great clip 'Red', and certainly one that I've not seen before.

So TP retired with a broken steering joint and a cracked battery then, eh? I'd have said there might have been a couple of other issues...

Cheers 'VIVA GT' for the avatar praise. I'm not 100% happy with it yet, but at least I have now reached the milestone that I can have my own. It seems to have taken ages to reach '250'! Quality not quantity I suppose.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

That's a great clip 'Red', and certainly one that I've not seen before.

So TP retired with a broken steering joint and a cracked battery then, eh? I'd have said there might have been a couple of other issues...

Cheers 'VIVA GT' for the avatar praise. I'm not 100% happy with it yet, but at least I have now reached the milestone that I can have my own. It seems to have taken ages to reach '250'! Quality not quantity I suppose.

You're catching me up quickly David, and I've got two years lead! (Plus, I have to say the quality of your posts greatly exceeds mine... Still, as you say, quantity not quality, that's the way to go!).

[MG Rover Sport]

I have a great deal of respect for anyone who is able to contribute to this thread 'VIVA GT' - and you have certainly been able to do that! - so as Sgt Oddball (Donald Sutherland) stated in Kelly's Heroes...

'Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?'

...we are all valued, appreciated and necessary for this thread to have reached the 66th page!

[KA]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

That's a great clip 'Red', and certainly one that I've not seen before.

So TP retired with a broken steering joint and a cracked battery then, eh? I'd have said there might have been a couple of other issues...

Well the steering joint does look pretty broken in that 'post-tree' pic, and I'm not surprised if the battery was cracked after that impact- it probably got cracked when most of the LH front suspension got pushed into the engine bay...

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by KA

Well the steering joint does look pretty broken in that 'post-tree' pic, and I'm not surprised if the battery was cracked after that impact- it probably got cracked when most of the LH front suspension got pushed into the engine bay...

That reminds me of the old traditional engine builders excuse: The car retired from the race with an electrical problem. (Which actually means there was a con-rod through the distributor!)

[KA]

Not sure if these have come up before, but www.rallyretro.com is a great source for pics from Irish tarmac events, so quite a bit of Group A Rover action from the Circuit of Ireland, Ulster and Manx. Mostly b/w, some colour, (and all heavily watermarked to protect their copyright). Searchable by driver and event- if linking directly to the galleries works, you'll find most of the Rover pics here

Tony Pond- '85 Circuit & Ulster
http://www.rallyretro.com/searchresu...y=13&offset=36
search=Tony+Pond&anyallexact=exact&imageField223.x=13&imageField223.y=13&offset=72

'85 Circuit, '84 Manx
http://www.rallyretro.com/searchresu...y=13&offset=72

'85 & '85 Manx, '85 Ulster
http://www.rallyretro.com/searchresu...=13&offset=108

'85 Ulster
http://www.rallyretro.com/searchresu...=13&offset=144

Mike Stuart- Circuit & Ulster '85 in A479WOE (with what looks to be a change in paintjob mid-season- by the Ulster, the lower part of the previously all-white car is a darker colour) and Manx in Computervision B565AOX:
http://www.rallyretro.com/searchresu...ageField2.y=12

[KA]

...and more- Bob Fowden in his regular Gp2 'Q32TEP' (I won't swear to this, but I think I've read a mention somewhere of this being a works-supplied shell?) on the '84 Ulster
http://www.rallyretro.com/searchresu...3.y=6&offset=0
http://www.rallyretro.com/searchresu....y=6&offset=36

The same search brings up a couple of shots of a Mobile Windscreens-sponsored 'C600AHW' on the 1985 Cork 20- They're captioned as Fowden, but I thought this was the car used by Dave Appleby on either the 1985 or 86 RAC
http://www.rallyretro.com/detailedvi...2020&Year=1985
http://www.rallyretro.com/detailedvi...2020&Year=1985
Note the wheels- I think I've only ever seen those particular alloys on 'works' cars, so whether it's Fowden or Appleby, were they getting access to 'works' parts for the car? That's interesting, because the impression I had from reading a couple of magazine articles was that a lot of the parts used on the 'official' cars were very difficult or expensive to get hold of for privateers

[KA]

I might have answered my own question about the Appleby car- Looking through some old cuttings etc, I've just found this piece from Motoring News in May '85:

'Dave Appleby's long-awaited Group A Rover Vitesse has finally been completed and is set to turn a wheel in anger. It seems the Rover will make it's debut on the British Midland Ulster Rally in July.....The delay seems to have been accentuated by parts supply problems, although the actual construction has been carried out in record time by Cartec in Bristol, and Andy Rouse is responsible for the setup of the engine and injection systems. Mobile Windscreens will support the Bristol driver on the Ulster....'

So assuming this is 'C600AHW' they're talking about, not an ex-works car, but given the Rouse involvement with the engine, definitely seems to be something much closer to a 'full-spec' Group A Vitesse than a low-budget club car

[KA]

The things you do when you're bored.... Waiting for an important phone call, I took a few minutes to run the various rally SD1 registration numbers through the DVLA vehicle enquiry website, to see how many were apparently still around. Findings were interesting....

OOC272X- the Ken Wood 'Golden Wonder' car- no trace, but as we know it was totalled and rebuilt into a one-off swb shell by Duncan Jaffray, that's no surprise

FJO450Y- the much-discussed car apparently converted from a race shell & used on Belgian events etc- First registered 22/4/83. 'Date of liability' (ie date the last tax disc expired/current one expires) 1/5/92. So it appears that the registration number at least survived on a Rover for several years after the last known outing of that car....Any ideas?

The A37xVUK rallysprint cars- all first registered 21/10/83

'377' seems to currently be on the road- next date of liability 1/3/2010,
'378' no trace
'379' again, currently taxed- due 1/6/09. This is the car that ended up with Duncan Holder (recent pics earlier in the thread- the car that was reshelled into Bastos shell by Del Lines)

So a couple of these still seem to be around. Anyone got recent sightings//pics of '377'?

A683NJO- one of the cars that went to the Middle East then returned as part of the Del Lines deal to buy the ex-AR Middle East team equipment. First registered 1/2/84, last date of liability 1/5/92. Around into the early 90's, so where did it end up?

The A4xxWOE cars- all first registered 4/6/84

'478'- the Pond '84 RAC car- last date of liability 1/12/96
'479'- the Mike Stuart car- last date of liability 29/5/90
'480'- the Russell Gooding car- last date of liability 1/3/87

We established earlier in the thread that '480' is still around- recently returned to the UK after a long spell in storage, a couple of UK owners and a spell in Scandinavia as a rallycross car. How about the others, which seem to have lasted into the '90s?

The B5xxAOX Computervision cars- all first registered 1/8/84. Curiously a couple show up as 'Austins' rather than 'Rovers' on the DVLA listing- still listed as 3.5 litre, so I'm assuming the reg numbers didn't get swapped onto a 1.3 Montego at some point

'563' last date of liability 1/2/87, so falls off the radar pretty quickly
'564' last date is 1/8/89- and there's an 'export marker' listed, so presumably went abroad after Gordon Smith's ownership
'565' last date of liability 1/4/88- again falls off the radar reasonably quickly. Isn't this the car that Del Lines bought as part of the deal for the Bastos race shell used to rebuild A379VUK?


Incidentally, over the weekend while out shopping, I parked on the basement level of a multi-storey car park, a few places away from a very tidy SD1 Vitesse which left just after I arrived- it sounded wonderful, you could hear that V8 echoing all the way round the carpark

[KA]

A few more rally pics- Marc Duez on Belgian events. Circuit des Ardennes 1984 (think we've had a few from this one already)

http://www.autosportforum.be/picture...pictureid=1998

...and Ypres 1985- some of these are familiar, but there are a couple I don't think I've seen before
http://www.empire-auto.com/Photos/ie..._ieper_008.htm

[KA]

...and from the same source as the Ypres pics, Spa 24 hours 1984, 'Fleet' and 'Gitanes' cars, plus the German car. Again I've seen some of these on other sites, but a few new ones to me a well

#25 Austin Rover Deutschland Manthey/Selzer/Schneider
http://www.empire-auto.com/Photos/24...84_spa_025.htm


#26 'Gitanes' Joossen/Jabouille/Pond
http://www.empire-auto.com/Photos/24...84_spa_026.htm

#27 'Fleet' Hahne/Allam/Soper
http://www.empire-auto.com/Photos/24...84_spa_027.htm

#28 'Fleet' Duez/Schlesser/Lovett
http://www.empire-auto.com/Photos/24...84_spa_028.htm

...and a Bastos car from '85
http://www.empire-auto.com/Photos/24...85_spa_007.htm


plus one more Rally pic- Duez at Ypres in '85
http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimag...%201.jpg1..jpg

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by KA

A few more rally pics- Marc Duez on Belgian events. Circuit des Ardennes 1984 (think we've had a few from this one already)

http://www.autosportforum.be/picture...pictureid=1998

...and Ypres 1985- some of these are familiar, but there are a couple I don't think I've seen before
http://www.empire-auto.com/Photos/ie..._ieper_008.htm

Another great find KA. Also.looking at the Ypres pictures I see that B565AOX has black B pillars on both sides, but about 30 pages ago (yes, I've just looked back through them!), there were questions about sister car B564AOX because it appeared to have a white B pillar only on the right hand side.
So, does this new information help us to prove anything (apart from the fact that I must be a very sad man to persue this!)?
OK KA, you added more picture links whilst I was typing! Looking at the BASTOS car I see that also has a white B Pillar (only shown from the near-side), does this help or hinder?

[KA]

Haven't had a rallycar pic for a while, but tripped over this one while uploading some stuff to Flickr;

Mike Stuart, 1985 RAC
http://www.flickr.com/photos/howiend...in/set-310602/

[KA]

Originally Posted by KA

Haven't had a rallycar pic for a while, but tripped over this one while uploading some stuff to Flickr;

Mike Stuart, 1985 RAC

for some reason, the origial link only seemed to work when I was signed in to Flickr- hopefully this one is better
http://www.flickr.com/photos/howiendlynne/4063245299/

[bluest]

This is my first post on 10 Tenths and I'm still finding my feet. I thought you might find this little story about an SD1 interesting. The thread is huge and I haven't read anything like all of it, so I don't know if anything similar has already been mentioned.

I know (or did up to about 5 years ago) the whereabouts of a 3-door SD1 rally car. The local motor factors were sorting me out with some new brake pipes for my car at MOT time. On getting the pipes home I noticed one of the ends wasn't flared properly. I dashed back to the factors but the old boy that flared the brake pipes, and owned the shop, had gone home for the day. No problem said his daughter, you can go up to the house and he'll sort the pipes out there, he has all the gear in his garage.

On arrival at the house I was ushered into the garage where there was a Rover SD1, full cage etc. only shorter. It basically looked like the section where the back doors should be had been removed. It also looked in a state of disrepair. It was clean but there was wiring all over the show and the windows were hazy.

I asked the gentleman a few questions. He told me that this was a car he had helped build years ago when he had worked in the BL Competition Dept. It was for a client in the middle east to go rallying with. He had bought the car back to restore. He also mentioned he had worked on TR7s and some stuff for Tony Pond.

Unfortunately, I don't recall much more than that. I didn't really know much about Rally cars and I was in a rush to get my brake pipes on before it got dark! The guy was easily in his 70s at the time and the motor factors has changed hands now.

Just thought it might be of some interest

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by bluest

This is my first post on 10 Tenths and I'm still finding my feet. I thought you might find this little story about an SD1 interesting. The thread is huge and I haven't read anything like all of it, so I don't know if anything similar has already been mentioned.

I know (or did up to about 5 years ago) the whereabouts of a 3-door SD1 rally car. The local motor factors were sorting me out with some new brake pipes for my car at MOT time. On getting the pipes home I noticed one of the ends wasn't flared properly. I dashed back to the factors but the old boy that flared the brake pipes, and owned the shop, had gone home for the day. No problem said his daughter, you can go up to the house and he'll sort the pipes out there, he has all the gear in his garage.

On arrival at the house I was ushered into the garage where there was a Rover SD1, full cage etc. only shorter. It basically looked like the section where the back doors should be had been removed. It also looked in a state of disrepair. It was clean but there was wiring all over the show and the windows were hazy.

I asked the gentleman a few questions. He told me that this was a car he had helped build years ago when he had worked in the BL Competition Dept. It was for a client in the middle east to go rallying with. He had bought the car back to restore. He also mentioned he had worked on TR7s and some stuff for Tony Pond.

Unfortunately, I don't recall much more than that. I didn't really know much about Rally cars and I was in a rush to get my brake pipes on before it got dark! The guy was easily in his 70s at the time and the motor factors has changed hands now.

Just thought it might be of some interest

Welcome to the fold bluest. I'm sure you'll soon find your feet and see yourself posting up here on a regular basis!
I'm thinking that ARG Motorsport built a 'sawn-off' SD1 rally car for Paris Dakar type events, that could be the origin of this onw. No doubt someone will be along very soon and explain exactly what this is!

[KA]

That sounds like something that was discussed a while back in the thread, though it might not be the same car.

Ken Wood's 'Golden Wonder' car,
http://anwcc.org/oldpics/img040x.jpg
which was originally a works car (in fact, I think the first works rally SD1 built) intended for use either in the Middle East or on an aborted 'Marathon' event, was campaigned on the British and Scottish championships by Wood for several years (1983-85 or so?), and then sold on after he got his 6R4 in '86.

From memory, a subsequent owner shunted it heavily, and reshelled it into a specially built short-wheelbase 2-door shell- I think there are pics of it somewhere fairly early in the thread

[bluest]

Originally Posted by corliss

I have backtracked through my research and found that this photo was actually of the the young lad, it was taken in the Place De La Concorde, Paris, 1984. The car was incidental, but historically interesting as I can find no further information. studying the registration plate it is in the "french" style but not in a sequence I have seen on french registrations, so maybe not a french entry? Having said that there has been a Rover advertised recently claiming to be an ex factory car built for long distance marathons, it is a 2 door!! but underbonnet shots look remarkedly like the early factory cars, also has the roof air vents used by factory. Also in 1991 I was offered for sale an ex factory rally car I have never heard of since, it was built by BL for the Himalaya rally and carried the names of 3 ladies who`s names I cannot remember, it had a 4.2ltr engine on 4 sidedraught webers, Dry sumped, a ZF box and Jag 4HA axle, 3 fuel tanks, twin rear shocks, still covered in dust and mud, exactly as rallied, and if I remember correctly painted in Daily Mirror colours, Red/White. Definately a genuine "works" car. It was in a dealers shed somewhere near Waltham Abbey, he also had lots of factory 6R4 stuff including a very rare 2.5 rover based v6 engine ( the original cut down V8 ) I was prepping a circuit race car so did not bother with it, I could kick myself!





Obviously this car has changed over the years, but was it really a "factory" car? seller claims it was one of a couple built by BL Motorsport for rally raids, even has roof vents seen on French car.

Skip

Now it all comes flooding back, that was the very car I saw, in the very garage I it in! I've driven past a number of times and wondered if it was still in there, but I guess not if it was up for sale.

ETA: I wish I'd asked a few more questions at the time. Wonder where it is now?

[bluest]

The only other info I have.... The pictures of the short wheelbase car that I quoted above were taken in Oldham. That garage it is pictured in front of is a few miles from my home and is just a private residential address. I saw the car there probably about 4 to 5 years ago, I drive past every now and then but the garage door has never been open!

I'm guessing from the info posted that it was up for sale and likely sold.