BMW Power not so new...

[Splatz the Cow]

In 1997, BMW powered the McLaren F1 GTR longtails at LeMans. The six litre engine was massively powerful and must have been great practice for BMW in developing big HP engines. A senior BMW motorsport technician said the engine produced significantly more power without the mandatory restrictors, and at a much higher rpm. In fact he put the power at just under 850bhp at something much higher than the F1 GTR's rev limit.

Its also become known that the M3 GTR's four litre donk is cranking out around 650hp in the GTS category, before its restrictor plates go on. Still pumping out 470Nm once the horsepower has been brought down to 450! I bet Panoz must have wondered what they were doing wrong with their own 4.0L mill.

What does this mean for F1. BMW are a company consistantly making units with big end power that last races and win.

So this leads me to think that now that BMW have a significant power advantage, they are going for reliability, a BMW standard. So is this year's F1 engine detuned for better lasting? I suspect so.

[neilap]

I feel that they might have sorted the motor out a bit better. It might feel more driveable. However what I felt was unrealistic in the press were the claims of 900hp by the media. I just dont understand why people seem to forget about the chassis. It has to be exceptional to handle at the "BMW powah", right! As far a detuning. I doubt it. In a sence all the teams detune their motors. But it is a balance between power and reliability that they all seek. So it is as powerful as they think they can run reliably.

[BD]

I love these topics
BMW have always been expert engine builders. It didnt just start with the McLaren motor.
Back in the early 80's, during the turbo era, BMW had 1.5L 4 cylinders that cranked out 1300-1500hp in qualifying trim. Using stock blocks!!! Amazing. At first they didnt know how much power they were putting out because their dynometer only went up to 1000hp.
As far as detuning the motors. The easiest way to limit power is to limit revs, hence rev limiters. Which in turn puts less stress on the motor.
Another way to limit power is to build the internal engine parts more robust. Which makes them heavier, which limits engine revs. Its finding this balance that makes a powerful and reliable motor.
But that is just a simplistic way of putting it. BMW must know something that the other companies havent figured out yet. There is just too big of a gap between BMW and the other engines. 20hp is a pretty big gap.

[kmchow]

It's too bad Honda can't get their engines into one some more reliable cars. Perhaps we can then see who--BMW or Honda--is the master of engines!

[RWC]

Originally posted by kmchow
It's too bad Honda can't get their engines into one some more reliable cars.

You're kidding right?!Hondas recent history has been a littany of broken cranks & other stuff that has continually forced them to reduce revs to survive the race.From recent comments,they even seam not to be running full revs in qualifying!!

[neilap]

I am biased as hell and still am forced to admit Honda is having issues with their motor. A shame though because it is really making their success as an outstanding builer look a bit overstated.

[kmchow]

However, there is a price to pay for BMW's involvement in F1. They have significantly cut back their touring car programmes!!

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by kmchow
Perhaps we can then see who--BMW or Honda--is the master of engines!

You are kidding, arn't you!! I wouldn't try to compare Honda with anything much higher in ranking than the Ford unit, certainly not Renault, and the top three are way beyond Honda's horizon.

[DavyboyLT1]

Originally posted by BD
Back in the early 80's, during the turbo era, BMW had 1.5L 4 cylinders that cranked out 1300-1500hp in qualifying trim. Using stock blocks!!!

I remember them - they called them the "Megatron" engines. For qualifying, they ran 65-70 psi of boost from the single turbo. I recall the drivers describing the power, when boost came on, as being like flicking on a light switch, and suddenly having 1000+ BHP at the rear wheels.

[neilap]

Well back then Honda was putting out similar power figures from their 1.5 liter unit. 1000hp per liter. BMW just really did their homework this time around. Honda seems to still be searching. BMW hit the nail on the head the first time. I would not be so quick to judge though. It is not like Honda is resigned to be and also ran. Lets see.

[wheelie]

Originally posted by DavyboyLT1



...I recall the drivers describing the power, when boost came on, as being like flicking on a light switch, and suddenly having 1000+ BHP at the rear wheels.

How can a driver handle this sudden powerthrust?
Was that a reason for banning turbos?

[DavyboyLT1]

Turbos were banned because the horsepower race was getting ridiculous, and they wanted to slow the cars down.

But, yes, the turbo cars (especially the 4 cyl. Megatron powered ones) were quite a handful to drive.

[f1manoz]

I still can't believe how easily BMW have come to grips with modern day Formula One. They have been competitive, really, since day 1. Quite unbelievable in this day and age.

As mentioned before, the Turbo BMW, particularly in the Brabhams and Benettons, were seriously powerful, but were also prone to blowing up (just like in the Williams last year.) But they were the days - 1300BHP, tyres capable of one serious banzai qualifying lap and then the technical side during the race of trying to go as fast a driver can while conserving fuel.

Honda, meanwhile, have some serious work to do if they want to rediscover the glory days of 1986-1991. They lack reliability, horsepower and are not with a team capable of taking Grand Prix victories on a consistent basis.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by f1manoz


Honda, meanwhile, have some serious work to do if they want to rediscover the glory days of 1986-1991. They lack reliability, horsepower and are not with a team capable of taking Grand Prix victories on a consistent basis.

Maybe they should go and ask Toyota how it's done.

Still, it's not safe to gloat in sport. I remember in a previous Wintr Olympics, the Swiss were doing so badly that the Austrians were laughing at them, and sking "Can we help you?". Now at this Wintr Olympics, people were mistaking the Australians for Austrians because our guys were doing much better in the early stages.

[Blue]

honda sucks big time now, but in the senna vs prost era, honda was unbeatable, i saw the races on video, and the commentators were raving about the engine like they do now for bmw. honda must have been a 'master of engine' back then.

[Splatz the Cow]

Yes, the same person who designed those hi-po BMW motors punching 1000 horses, designed the Big-Mac motor.

Strange to think of McLaren F1 powered by Mercedes, and McLaen F1 powered by BMW (the F1 GTR.)

[Splatz the Cow]

And as for not producing touring cars, didn't I just mention in the first post about the M3 GTR. Shame BMW were so retarded in their thinking that they forgot that motorsport has rules that include them as well, requiring them to build a road car for full sale. Seen a 4.0L V8 M3 lately?

[calais]

its a bit early to write off honda. just look at their road car engines. top shelf stuff.
look at renault this time last year, their engine was a dog. today everyone is saying how good it is.
honda will get there

[f1manoz]

Yes, Honda may get there, but the Renault is barely one year old yet Honda have been back officially since 2000 (and never really left due to the Mugen deal Ligier/Prost/Jordan carried).

Honda are going to have to work very hard, and perhaps start their own team, to achieve the results of yesteryear.

[DMC]

Originally posted by f1manoz
Yes, Honda may get there, but the Renault is barely one year old yet Honda have been back officially since 2000 (and never really left due to the Mugen deal Ligier/Prost/Jordan carried).

Honda are going to have to work very hard, and perhaps start their own team, to achieve the results of yesteryear.

Or buy BAR when British American Tobacco want out when tobacco sponsorship bans come into place. This is the most likely scenario for Honda as I can't see Eddie Jordan's ego letting someone else take charge of HIS team.