[Tech Issue] Closed cockpits- Closer to reality then we might think?

[Sodemo]

Its a tough one, as whilst i'm sure the Halo protected him in the initial barrier impact, I do wonder if it hindered him in the exit of the vehicle due to how the car was angled against the barrier. It looked to me as though a piece of barrier got twisted around the halo which then pinned the car sideways against the armco.

There are so many measures that they could introduce to improve safety, I mean if they really wanted they could insist that every driver has to compete with a roll cage around them, but that wouldn't be in the interests of F1, would it be safer? Absolutely, but probably not acceptable.

[Knowlesy]

He would have exited the vehicle a lot easier without the halo certainly, albeit as two sections..

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

There are so many measures that they could introduce to improve safety, I mean if they really wanted they could insist that every driver has to compete with a roll cage around them, but that wouldn't be in the interests of F1, would it be safer? Absolutely, but probably not acceptable.

Effectively this is what they’ve got with the monocoque and the halo. And initially, at least, it wasn’t thought to be in the interests of to quite a few people.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

He would have exited the vehicle a lot easier without the halo certainly, albeit as two sections..

Personally, I would rather see a full LMP style cockpit enclosure, as that way its unlikely it would have become twisted into the barrier material. Of course the next question is why did the barrier fail.

I think its about time the "safer barrier" made a more widespread appearance across tracks in Europe and the rest of the world. I understand its in use a lot in the US.

[Adam43]

But generally not on road course straightaways.

Maybe it expensively should.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Personally, I would rather see a full LMP style cockpit enclosure, as that way its unlikely it would have become twisted into the barrier material. Of course the next question is why did the barrier fail.

I think its about time the "safer barrier" made a more widespread appearance across tracks in Europe and the rest of the world. I understand its in use a lot in the US.

I think you are right, armco always seems to fail.

There is this analysis of the crash that I posted in the race thread as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu0YOjpe8i4

[Knowlesy]

SAFER and Tec-Pro barriers do seem to have been quite impressive, though they are not perfect. There was that weird incident in the Russian F2 race this year where the cars went under the barrier and then there was an oil fire (with no fire hoses within the same county seemingly). Everyone got out hunky dorey but it could have been somewhat different if the barrier had landed differently (I am presuming they are too heavy for a driver to shove out of the way). That said, it should be very straightforward to avoid that kind of thing in future.

It is often the case with safety that you solve loads of problems but create a new one. You can argue the halo does that because it impedes getting out of the car in certain situations, which is where Grosjean was extremely lucky on Sunday. But you could have that crash a thousand times and 99.999% of the time you probably just bounce back onto the track.

[S griffin]

I think RoGro’s accident was the luckiest escape since Martin Donnelly’s accident at Jerez 30 years ago.

[chillibowl]

FIA conclude their accident investigation.

peak force equivalent to 67g.

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-conclud...grand-prix-and

[Greem]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

FIA conclude their accident investigation.



peak force equivalent to 67g.



https://www.fia.com/news/fia-conclud...grand-prix-and

Over time it looks like a lot of small, incremental improvements will come from this report. I note that one of the many pieces of work is a review of barrier openings, alongside novel barrier designs to better cope with a range of incident types. Also reviewing the methodology of circuit licensing and homologation, too.

No knee jerk stuff. Good.

[BTCC frog]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

FIA conclude their accident investigation.

peak force equivalent to 67g.

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-conclud...grand-prix-and

67G! I believe that means he went from 119mph to 0mph in 0.08 seconds, twice as fast as their reaction times at the start of a race. It is also the amount of time it takes for a reflex response to be carried out (I think), meaning that in the time it takes for someone to draw their hand away from a hot plate, Grosjean's speed had decreased by over 100mph. It is incredible that he survived.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

in the time it takes for someone to draw their hand away from a hot plate, Grosjean's speed had decreased by over 100mph. It is incredible that he survived.

To take the story to the next stage - Romain Grosjean is to drive a Mercedes on a one-off return to Formula 1 following his fiery accident at last year's Bahrain Grand Prix.

Grosjean will do a demonstration run in Lewis Hamilton's 2020 W10 at the French Grand Prix on 27 June, and a test at the same track two days later.

'Mercedes F1 boss Wolff said: "We are very happy to support Romain with this special opportunity. The idea first came when it looked like Romain would be ending his active career in F1 and we didn't want his accident to be his last moment in an F1 car.

"Romain's accident remains us of the dangers these guys face each time they climb into the cockpit, but it's also a testament to the incredible steps this sport has taken to improve safety over the year. I know the F1 community will celebrate seeing Romain back on track."'

[wnut]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

To take the story to the next stage - Romain Grosjean is to drive a Mercedes on a one-off return to Formula 1 following his fiery accident at last year's Bahrain Grand Prix.

Grosjean will do a demonstration run in Lewis Hamilton's 2020 W10 at the French Grand Prix on 27 June, and a test at the same track two days later.

'Mercedes F1 boss Wolff said: "We are very happy to support Romain with this special opportunity. The idea first came when it looked like Romain would be ending his active career in F1 and we didn't want his accident to be his last moment in an F1 car.

"Romain's accident remains us of the dangers these guys face each time they climb into the cockpit, but it's also a testament to the incredible steps this sport has taken to improve safety over the year. I know the F1 community will celebrate seeing Romain back on track."'

Heart warming gesture from Toto. nice to see.
Should have great promotional value for Mercedes in France too.

[S griffin]

Nice to see Toto honouring his promise of giving him one last run

[wnut]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Nice to see Toto honouring his promise of giving him one last run

Nice to see RoGro get a chance to drive too, thankfully the FIA were not still sitting on their hands jawing on about solutions to cockpit protection.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by wnut

Heart warming gesture from Toto. nice to see.
Should have great promotional value for Mercedes in France too.

Of course!!

[crmalcolm]

Another incident today that (hopefully) we can all agree was another example of the halo providing protection to a driver.

[Aysedasi]

Yep. The outcome without a halo doesn't bear thinking about. They also need to remove those sausages from turn 1 asap......

[ScotsBrutesFan]

There is no doubt that the halo helped to protect Hamilton today, but the incident also highlighted the deficiency of the Halo. Namely encroachment from above.

Would an enclosed cockpit have done better, we'll never know for sure, but there are 2 areas I'd point out.

Firstly it was the halo itself that caused the floor to break on the RB as it came overhead, it was only that sufficient of the rear of the floor was on the airbox/roll hoop, that prevented large pieces of floor entering the cockpit from above.

Secondly is the RB's rear wheel and how it came across the top of the halo and Hamilton's head, It would be interesting if images were released of any marks or damage to Hamilton's helmet.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Secondly is the RB's rear wheel and how it came across the top of the halo and Hamilton's head, It would be interesting if images were released of any marks or damage to Hamilton's helmet.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

That first image really sends a shiver ....

[wnut]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Wonder if Mr Hamilton is grateful that his advice was ignored when the halo was forced into F1 yet.

[Adam43]

Yes, he said he was very grateful and praise the development of safety.

What is great is that he can change his opinion.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Yep. The outcome without a halo doesn't bear thinking about. They also need to remove those sausages from turn 1 asap......

Why?
Its not a part of the racing surface.
There is a line that is the edge of the racing surface.
Then a curb that is outside the racing surface but you are allowed to use by placing your inside wheels on it,
The sausage curb is then there to discourage people from crossing the real curb and short cutting the corner.
There are other bars there painted in stripes for the same reason.
There is also a clearly defined path inside the judders bars to enable people caught out or late braking to cross the chicane area without causing damage to the car and rejoining on the other side of the chicane.
But of course they can't get an advantage from it and must redress any place gained.

But its not dangerous UNLESS you try to overtake by going off the circuit and then you are at fault and the author of your own misfortune. You may also be the author of someone else's misfortune.
In that case you will get a penalty.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Why?
Its not a part of the racing surface.
There is a line that is the edge of the racing surface.
Then a curb that is outside the racing surface but you are allowed to use by placing your inside wheels on it,
The sausage curb is then there to discourage people from crossing the real curb and short cutting the corner.
There are other bars there painted in stripes for the same reason.
There is also a clearly defined path inside the judders bars to enable people caught out or late braking to cross the chicane area without causing damage to the car and rejoining on the other side of the chicane.
But of course they can't get an advantage from it and must redress any place gained.

But its not dangerous UNLESS you try to overtake by going off the circuit and then you are at fault and the author of your own misfortune. You may also be the author of someone else's misfortune.
In that case you will get a penalty.