[WTCC] Wtcc

[Craig]

Stephane Ratel (boss of ETCC, FIA GT and FIA Sportcars) is rumoured to be taking all three series to a global audience next year. I can see it could make sense for the two latter series to expand but will 2 litre tourers ever take off outside Europe? I think touring car regs are something best tailored to local conditions - what do you think?

[rdjones]

Why not it nearly work back in the early 90's, ok there was no world championship, but it was a one off race.

[Craig]

But when you look at that period of time where did the entries come from? Europe in the main IIRC? Okay, fair enough, there were Super Touring championships in Australia, America and Germany, but they were hardly well received, were they? In fact the German series was only really there as the DTM had collapsed due to the spiralling costs when that become the ITC...

[rdjones]

Ture, but why don't they give it a go maybe try a couple of expiremental race in the States, Japan and Oz just to see it works, if it does then great and if dosn't then well they gave it a go

[paulzinho]

In most things the enties come from Europe as that is where most races are and therefore where the teams are based, always has been like that unless you have wildcard entries.

Look at F1, all the teams are based in Europe, in Grouap C, most races were in Europe so the teams were based here though you got the Japanese championship runners contesting the Japanese rounds, thats what I can see happenning here if the rules permit but my feeling is that for Touring cars it just isn't practical enough.

[Craig]

Aren't you supposed to learn from the mistakes of history though...?

[speedy king]

Originally posted by rdjones
Ture, but why don't they give it a go maybe try a couple of expiremental race in the States, Japan and Oz just to see it works, if it does then great and if dosn't then well they gave it a go

Don't think you can really decide over a race. Look how long it has taken for championships like the BTCC to draw in big crowds, i'm sure the first BTCC race only had club level crowd volumes

[GTRMagic]

Perhaps they can take over from the CART ChampCars at Surfers Paradise?

The 1988 Sandown WSC meeting almost bankrupted the local organising club because of such poor attendance, although the racing was brilliant.

I dont think the Adelaide Race of a thousand years did a load better either, but that one was backed by the SA government.

Bring these races downunder, but know that you are not likely to get zillions from sanctioning fees

[racer69]

That was of course after they had just recovered from nearly going bamkrupt after the 1984 WSC meeting.

I don't think that another WTCC should return instead of the ETC though.

A return of the World Touring Car Championship would be fine by me, just as long as you Europeans follow the regulations this time.

Would Roberto Ravaglia make a comeback to defend his WTCC title from 1987 and go for two in a row

[GTRMagic]

I thought Roberto had retired to team ownership these days, for BMW (who else )

Can we have the Aussie scrutineers run the show for the whole series

[touringlegend]

I think if a partner could be found to transport the teams gear to each event then this could work - at the end of the day it isn't any more expensive running a team of cars in Japan than it is in Italy - it's the getting there that costs..

Alfa and BMW are pretty much worldwide brands these days aren't they - so they'd probably be for it, and wasn't there talk of Kia entering so an event in Asia wouldn't go a miss for them.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally posted by Craig Antill
Stephane Ratel (boss of ETCC, FIA GT and FIA Sportcars)

One small thing, Ratel dosent control the ETCC. The way I understand it Johnathan Ashman does, he is the President of the FIA ETCC.

Might be knit picking I know, but just wanted to point out out that it isnt up to Ratel. Visit www.fiatouringcars.com (Whos who section for more detials.)

[JMeissner]

I see rising costs, I see less manufacturers, I see less cars, I see boring tracks...



No but I know many teams in the ETCC that never are going to afford WTCC.

[Kurt Maxwell]

Common rules for 2L Super 2000 cars worldwide is one thing -but there is no sound business reason for a WTCC.

World Touring Car Championship sounds great when you say it though.

[kmchow]

To have S2000 rules take hold in NA, I think the "easiest" solution would be to have the FIA convince the organizers of the Speed World Challenge to come on board. They currently run the most professional series for racers. Presently, 30%-40% of the average 45 car grids are already sedans. The Speed World Challenge already has TV broadcast deals with SpeedTV.

To help with this potential change, the FIA should also enlist the help of automakers like Mazda/Nissan/BMW which currently support the series heavily through semi-works or well rewarded Independent efforts.

By securing the Speed World Challenge, the FIA could secure the support of a major auto/fan market, North America (including Canada and the US!!)

[gttouring]

the current USTCC and the Speed TC are in superproduction rules, A 2.0 litre would work if they could get the 'grassroots' involvement that all these teams and sanctioners really seem to go for. after all when the CART sanctioned USTCC was in trial it was of the 2.0 litre format and crumbled due to lack of factory blessing and sponsorship. they could try again at the speed TC level, but not many car are available with 2.0 litre in the states anymore. Even the 3.0 litre lexus car are 'destroked by TRD' to have 2.8 litres to fir the rules, i think its silly, a 2.0litre WTCC would be awesome if they can run it like the BTCC of the 90's

[kmchow]

Originally posted by gttouring
after all when the CART sanctioned USTCC was in trial

I think you mean NATCC, not USTCC.

it was of the 2.0 litre format and crumbled due to lack of factory blessing and sponsorship.

During the mid-90s, there weren't enough manufacturers with globally sold vehicles to race in the US. The Ford Focus didn't appear in NA until '00. Though Ford did have the Mondeo which they could have raced. But I think Ford's ST program was too busy struggling to produce results in the BTCC, let alone worry about another ST series. GM won't have any global small car available until '04/'05 when the new Astra will make it's debut. The Saturn Ion is the first vehicle to utilize the new global Delta car platform. What could GM have raced? We had a Extra large version of the Vectra, but could that be rebadged?? The DaimlerChrysler Neon was available, but it wasn't raced anywhere. Honda had their Civic, but our NA bodystle was sold in limited markets. Toyota didn't get the IS300 until '99 or '00? Perhaps their present Toyota Corolla would make a better global platform instead of the Lexus IS300. Audi NA was undecided whether to start a motorsport program. BMW had a strong presence in sportscar racing. Volvo NA still thinks racing is a very irresponsible thing to do and not the image that Volvo NA wants to give.

they could try again at the speed TC level, but not many car are available with 2.0 litre in the states anymore. Even the 3.0 litre lexus car are 'destroked by TRD' to have 2.8 litres to fir the rules, i think its silly, a 2.0litre WTCC would be awesome if they can run it like the BTCC of the 90's

I don't think it really matters what displacement is powering the cars. But since Nascar is so strong in NA, why bother spending tonnes of money to start/back a new series??? With Toyota entering Nascar at a more visible level, Nissan/Honda probably aren't far behind.

Toyota tried supporting the NATCC, but they were burnt and let down.

But now is the best time to start a new global series. What better way for GM to promote their new small global cars by racing them in multiple championship. Remember Audi with their A4 back in '96? SEVEN NATIONAL ST CHAMPIONSHIPS!! Best $100M US (rumored) Audi ever spent??

[Kurt Maxwell]

Looks like a WTCC and a WGTC will happen in '05 for sure.

[FIRE]

I was looking ETCC on Eurosport and the Dutch commentator said that there will be races in Shanghai, Kyalami and Dubai next season. Can somebody confirm this?

[Dani Filth]

no ... but would be nice .. i want as many races possible

[FIRE]

Off course a WTCC would be great, but the costs will increase and I think this will be the end of small teams like Carly Motors.

[Dani Filth]

at world class level .. there could still be regional series ........... just my 3 cents

[FIRE]

Do you mean the current ETCC + some international races? Like in F3 you have national championships + Zandvoort, Macau, Korea and Pau (?).

[Dani Filth]

something like that .. and Carly(or any other that can't find the extra needed) could make the European rounds . just like now .. but not make it overseas ... so cost stay the same ...

[FIRE]

Maybe BMW can give Carly some support. On the other hand they have the money to make the trip to Macau, factory driver Jorg Muller drives for the Dutch team at the Macau race, see the Macau topic on this fourm.