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Old 28 Mar 2019, 18:26 (Ref:3893963)   #6436
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As fast as that car is, it'd be too slow for the top class of LM. DSC has a short interview with Rob Leupen from Toyota on the upcoming hypercar class. Something kinda confuses me though at the end. He says the GR Super Sport is something they want to see as an R&D basis for the program but also it adds a PR basis. But at the end of the article he says they want to use a prototype not a road car. So is it the GR Super Sport or not? Maybe the car is their choice and it's a prototype first with a road version after.
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Old 28 Mar 2019, 18:37 (Ref:3893967)   #6437
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It won't be too slow for the top class if it's just a BoP class where they and/or ACO can do whatever artificial magic to speed it up (or slow every other car for it's level). Or else how would the million pound Bentley Continental ever have been able to compete with the others in GT3 etc

Anyway, I guess Zero Emission / Hydrogen class will retain the low performance level target of Car-Car in 2024-25
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...-tomorrow.html
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Old 28 Mar 2019, 20:37 (Ref:3893984)   #6438
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I do wonder if the ACO are maybe trying to slow these cars down for safety and performance balancing reasons? I'd imagine that a slower class of cars would be easier to BOP. And slower cars would probably make safety advocates and the ACO's insurers happy, though I believe that the current cars are plenty safe, namely due to the fact that you're never going to 100% eliminate accidents/incidents in racing, nor the risk of injury or worse. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see bad accidents or drivers getting hurt, but you're never going to entirely eliminate that possibility.

If you ask me, I actually wouldn't mind if the rules see a return back to 1994 where a whole motley crew of various cars raced at LM. At least that'd bring some variety back.
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Old 28 Mar 2019, 22:38 (Ref:3894001)   #6439
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The chances of accidents will actually likely only increase now that all classes will be much closer to each other in performances and top speeds and braking points, thanks to LMP2 getting dumbed down due to P1/GTP/Car-Car and GTE edging towards old GT1 lap times
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Old 29 Mar 2019, 00:14 (Ref:3894011)   #6440
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IMO, there should be clear performance gaps between the classes. Granted, having Gibson give LMP2 teams a 600bhp V8 hasn't had disastrous effects, even given the top speeds of the LMP2s being at least competitive with the LMP1s.

However, having the laptimes condense closer between classes IMO can't be good, in so far as I'd at least start to question the validity of having 4 classes once laptimes start getting too close.
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Old 30 Mar 2019, 02:50 (Ref:3894209)   #6441
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They're going back to the same problem they complained about before. Cars having to take risks in braking and corners instead of relying on the horsepower to overtake slower traffic on the straights. Who's great idea was this? I think the Toyota article hints at things like this being issues. They say it's cheaper to do a prototype to have it at the speed required. I think it makes sense because speeding up a road car is a tough ask unless you have something like the Valkyrie. No one has that. The hypercars out there are more straight line/acceleration monsters not corner-carvers.
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Old 30 Mar 2019, 12:18 (Ref:3894257)   #6442
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Yup

Listening to lobbyism is what kills reasonable existing ideologies
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Old 30 Mar 2019, 13:05 (Ref:3894262)   #6443
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I've just read this and thought it was interesting: http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...on-martin.html


This part especially stood out to me:
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The BoP process that I think is used very effectively in GTE, I think the intention is that process will be extended to this class but the product solutions are quite likely to be a lot more diverse than they are in GTE so the challenge of performance balancing will be greater.
Maybe I'm seeing this wrong, but where does he get the idea the BoP process in GTE is used 'effectively' in any way? GTE is basically decided in boardrooms now and there's constant squabble over it. And that's just with reasonably similar cars, he already mentions this new class is going to be even more diverse so it's going to be even worse. And how does he think it will help with costs? I've seen zero evidence that BoP works to limit costs in any way.


What this smells like is Aston and Ferrari said 'we want to bring whatever we want and you make us competitive' and the ACO decided to say yes. I'm sorry if I come off as whining about this but this just... it makes me sad.
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Old 30 Mar 2019, 13:16 (Ref:3894263)   #6444
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The GTE BoP extended to pit stop times and maximum stint lengths. At that point it stopped being effective and became awful. There was no variety and every car ran identical strategies. The current state of GTE is significantly worse than it was even 2 years ago.
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Old 30 Mar 2019, 13:29 (Ref:3894265)   #6445
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Aston thinks it's effective as it allowed their garbage pieces of old 2008 GT2 chassis - and now it's almost as lackluster successor - to be in the winning circle ever since the 2012 season. They expect the same easy, cheap and manipulative route to work here. And it probably will, in horrible fashion of course.
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Old 30 Mar 2019, 14:01 (Ref:3894271)   #6446
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Did we ever get the results of the survey they did last year? And more importantly what the ACO interpreted as the best way to go forward from their findings?
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Old 30 Mar 2019, 14:07 (Ref:3894274)   #6447
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I've seen zero evidence that BoP works to limit costs in any way.
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What this smells like is Aston and Ferrari said 'we want to bring whatever we want and you make us competitive' and the ACO decided to say yes.
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Aston thinks it's effective as it allowed their garbage pieces of old 2008 GT2 chassis - and now it's almost as lackluster successor - to be in the winning circle ever since the 2012 season. They expect the same easy, cheap and manipulative route to work here. And it probably will, in horrible fashion of course.
For Aston it clearly allows them to compete at a lower cost.

I’m no BoP fan, but I do see it reducing costs. And that, at the moment, is taking priority over the competition of engineering and race strategy.
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Old 30 Mar 2019, 14:51 (Ref:3894278)   #6448
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I’m no BoP fan, but I do see it reducing costs. And that, at the moment, is taking priority over the competition of engineering and race strategy.
So, they should find new fans who do not care whether it's engineering and "strategic" championship or "reduced costs series". As for me I do not care whether it's a works team or an enthusiasts' garage while there're transparent technical and sporting regulations allowing wide open competition for constructors and strategists. For me it's the core of racing (endurance or sprint). Thanks to FIA we have none of these championships today globally.
Of course, there're plenty of fans who just support certain team or even a driver and they are not interested why car A is faster than car B. They only know that there's a magical BoP which allows car B going faster at the next round. Looks like they do not need any technical explanation at all. And there're drivers who just want to race at an eye-level with competitors, so they are happy with BoP and lack of constructors' competition.
As for me, I'm not a driver, I'm not a show fan, so I stopped watching almost all the championships. There's no technical reason in it, so it's the same as if I would watch someone having a breakfast at fast-food or painting own fence - it's cost saving and rather BoPped.
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Old 30 Mar 2019, 17:15 (Ref:3894292)   #6449
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I'm not advocating it. I am just pointing out why it has got to where it is.
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Old 30 Mar 2019, 17:30 (Ref:3894296)   #6450
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Well with the current regulation we had cars that looked frightful like the last AUDI LMP1 and sounded worse than a lawn mower with the diesel engine and even the turbo engines do not sound good (Toyota, Porsche), then if this new Hypercars rules allows us to have the new Ferrari, McLaren hypercars and the fantastic Aston Martin Valkyrie with the V12 Cosworth with 11000 RPM for me it's okay to have a bit of BOP.
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