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Old 15 Apr 2021, 09:37 (Ref:4046064)   #196
Gerard C
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Gerard C should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGerard C should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGerard C should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
May be its worth to contact a customs agency having experience in this particular matter, there's a huge difference between pros under contract and owners making a private use:
Carnets can only be issued for racing vehicles that are transported to the EU or any other Carnet country under transport contract (i.e. by freight forwarder / haulier). Any such vehicles can only be used on a dedicated race-track or on the roads closed to public. If the vehicle is road worthy and is being driven to the country of destination by the owner– then the Carnet is not required (the same applies to personal vehicles being towed or transported by the owner (i.e. motorbike transported to EU in a van by the owner; car being towed behind a motorhome vehicle driven by the owner etc).

I dont think you need a tacho for a van under 3500kg trailing or not even for professional use.

Dont remember if this has been posted before: https://www.autosport.com/national/n...75882/4975882/
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Old 15 Apr 2021, 10:11 (Ref:4046069)   #197
Gerard C
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Gerard C should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGerard C should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGerard C should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
From our gov website: "Le chronotachygraphe numérique, qui remplace depuis 2006 l'appareil analogique de contrôle des temps de conduite et de repos des conducteurs, doit obligatoirement être installé sur les véhicules de transport de marchandises de plus de 3,5 tonnes et sur les véhicules de transport de voyageurs de plus de 9 places (y compris le siège du conducteur), immatriculés dans les États membres de l'Union européenne, sous peine de sanction."
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Old 15 Apr 2021, 12:45 (Ref:4046081)   #198
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Tel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
This link is fairly easy to understand .http://www.autoaddicts.co.uk/brexit-...MTJYaX45Cdq5XA
You do not need a Carnet if it is your own registered vehicle ,and any spares can be on a duplicate list .

Under UK law , any vehicle towing with a gross weight over 3500KG needs a Tacho & O licence unless it is private use only .But you must have all of your facts in place before you go as VOSA can be extremely difficult if they think it might be HIRE OR REWARD
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Old 15 Apr 2021, 13:28 (Ref:4046085)   #199
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Tel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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This link is fairly easy to understand .http://www.autoaddicts.co.uk/brexit-...MTJYaX45Cdq5XA
You do not need a Carnet if it is your own registered vehicle ,and any spares can be on a duplicate list .

Under UK law , any vehicle towing with a gross weight over 3500KG needs a Tacho & O licence unless it is private use only .But you must have all of your facts in place before you go as VOSA can be extremely difficult if they think it might be HIRE OR REWARD
I should of course have said DVSA instead of VOSA, because they changed a few years ago .
Have had many runs in with them over the years ,and they can be very awkward when they want to be so you need to know what is what before you do any towing with a van , or even a SUV which will also needs a Tacho if it is HIRE OR REWARD.
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Old 15 Apr 2021, 14:52 (Ref:4046092)   #200
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eamonn ledwidge should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
[QUOTE=Tel 911S;4046081]This link is fairly easy to understand .http://www.autoaddicts.co.uk/brexit-...MTJYaX45Cdq5XA
You do not need a Carnet if it is your own registered vehicle ,and any spares can be on a duplicate list .


This is all very well, but there is clearly no awareness or recognition amongst those who drafted these arrangements that some racing cars, specifically single seaters and sports racers, are not road registered and insured for road use.

How are we left??
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Old 15 Apr 2021, 15:22 (Ref:4046098)   #201
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Tel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
[QUOTE=eamonn ledwidge;4046092]
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This link is fairly easy to understand .http://www.autoaddicts.co.uk/brexit-...MTJYaX45Cdq5XA
You do not need a Carnet if it is your own registered vehicle ,and any spares can be on a duplicate list .


This is all very well, but there is clearly no awareness or recognition amongst those who drafted these arrangements that some racing cars, specifically single seaters and sports racers, are not road registered and insured for road use.

How are we left??
That link does say that if the car is not registered , then it will need a Carnet .
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Old 15 Apr 2021, 16:01 (Ref:4046103)   #202
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[QUOTE=Tel 911S;4046098]
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That link does say that if the car is not registered , then it will need a Carnet .
I missed that, many thanks - just great news!.
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Old 15 Apr 2021, 19:52 (Ref:4046148)   #203
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Thanks for all the comments on this. It's interesting to see that the quote comes from one of the Chambers of Commerce (London) that offer Carnets on a commercial basis. I think it is about the only indication that I have seen in print (including all the Government pages that I have perused) that a Carnet is not an appropriate solution if you are towing your own racer, whether it is road-registered or not.

One of the key points that I have taken from various Government advice pages is that if you are "temporarily exporting " your car (eg to race it in Europe), and will subsequently be re-importing it to the UK, in order to qualify for "Returned Goods Relief" on Tax and Duty one of the issues is that you ideally need to be able to show documentary evidence that the car previously has been in the UK. If the car is or has been road-registered in the UK I guess that the V5C effectively achieves this. If it is a non road-registered race car, suitable documentary evidence is a bit more tricky. I think there is no generally acknowledged "owner" or "keeper" or "origin/history" document for race cars in the UK; and I have bought and sold quite a few over the years, as have many others.

If you don't have suitable documentation for your "own" racer, and assuming a Carnet isn't the way to go because it is for commercial and/or professional "goods", then a Duplicate List could be a solution. I think a Duplicate List could provide verification that the car had in fact been temporarily exported from the UK, and that it is the same car that is being re-imported. A Duplicate List is in any case also cost-free, unlike a Carnet, so even if a Carnet is a workable solution I for one would much prefer to pass on it.

I think an issue about Duplicate lists is that they can work OK for leaving/returning through a UK port, but do not address any issues that you might encounter at the European port, or other Customs borders around Europe if you venture that far. These are dependant on the rules that apply to the country that you are entering/leaving. I think Carnets do address these potential problems (provided the country in question accepts Carnets).

There is certainly a lot of confusion for private individuals such as myself who want to take their own race car abroad to compete (at one or more events), and then return it to the UK.

The same probably applies to any sports/leisure equipment that can be moved by road/ferry/tunnel: motorbikes, pedal bikes, gliders, canoes, snowmobiles, boats, surfboards...and anyone moving this sort of equipment between the UK and Europe commercially now faces large extra bureaucracy, hassles, and costs relating to many of the points that have been raised in this thread...ie Carnets, Operator Licences, Trailer Registration etc etc.

Sigh.
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Old 15 Apr 2021, 21:13 (Ref:4046155)   #204
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The same probably applies to any sports/leisure equipment that can be moved by road/ferry/tunnel: motorbikes, pedal bikes, gliders, canoes, snowmobiles, boats, surfboards...and anyone moving this sort of equipment between the UK and Europe commercially now faces large extra bureaucracy, hassles, and costs relating to many of the points that have been raised in this thread...ie Carnets, Operator Licences, Trailer Registration etc etc.

Sigh.
It only want's some jobsworth at the airport or docks to start digging deeper, I travel to and fro to Spain a fair bit throughout the year (at least I did) and carry several thousand pounds worth of video/audio recording and laptop gear. I have often thought about this and the answers from the government are a "bit ambiguous" just like most things at the moment, as how will they differentiate between business and pleasure ?
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Old 15 Apr 2021, 22:57 (Ref:4046163)   #205
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Simon - I reckon 'suitable documentation' would include an HTP issued and validated by MSUK. Still leaves a problem for the impecunious clubbie with a race car that was never homologated or is modified beyond hom spec or simply doesn't justify the expense of an HTP.
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Old 23 Apr 2021, 05:30 (Ref:4047434)   #206
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delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!
Off for the first Delta trip of the year . I am collecting a Formula Ford from Belgium . I had Covid test at Cobham services yesterday and am now on the train under the sea somewhere . All easy so far and I am looking forward to driving through France and Belgium . Just wish I was going to Spa as well . I will keep you updated as the day goes on . ?
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Old 23 Apr 2021, 06:24 (Ref:4047437)   #207
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John Elwin should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJohn Elwin should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Off for the first Delta trip of the year . I am collecting a Formula Ford from Belgium . I had Covid test at Cobham services yesterday and am now on the train under the sea somewhere . All easy so far and I am looking forward to driving through France and Belgium . Just wish I was going to Spa as well . I will keep you updated as the day goes on . ?
Give me a toot as you go past!

It's currently bright & sunny here in Northern France. Can't speak for Belgium though...

You could also take that Alfa back for Richard!
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Old 23 Apr 2021, 10:26 (Ref:4047478)   #208
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You could also take that Alfa back for Richard!
The plan develops!
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Old 23 Apr 2021, 12:08 (Ref:4047507)   #209
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The plan develops!

When I checked two days ago it was showing as Sold, not surprisingly


I'll have to revert to plan A
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Old 23 Apr 2021, 14:24 (Ref:4047536)   #210
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Damn, it was a cunning plan!
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