BTCC 2018 in-season discussion

[porsche962fan]

what is Dan Welch up to this days ?

[RS67]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

what is Dan Welch up to this days ?

Is he not running a Porsche in the Super cup. He was with a Porsche, testing at Brands a few weeks before the season started. Don't know if he was there in the roll of team owner or driver coach though.

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by RS67

Is he not running a Porsche in the Super cup. He was with a Porsche, testing at Brands a few weeks before the season started. Don't know if he was there in the roll of team owner or driver coach though.

On the porsche media day he was down as a driver but I haven't seen him race, (tho he has been at all weekends as team boss I guess)

Mat Jackson did a retro fiesta club race just before the season started and has done nothing since, anyone able to pop in on the workshop at Jackson Ford and check he's OK?

[medius]

Plato-watch.

https://www.adrianflux.co.uk/motorsp...ign=adrianflux

[S griffin]

Sounds like an admission that he just gave up in race 3. Not giving it his all like Sutton

[Alfisti]

In fairness, what's the point of continuing to run? You're adding wear and tear, risk of accident damage and not likely to score a point. Top that with feeling unhappy and you may as well go and have a beer!

[Matt K]

I wonder if there's any help for Subaru/BMR. I bet this is their last year in BTCC - or at least last as a factory outfit.

[VIVA GT]

This just seems like public bleating (something that JP is very good at) in the hope that TOCA will allow them more engine power (to make up for their lack of pace/budget/development).
Mind you, that would be if their lack of power was because it'd been turned down by TOCA in the first place, but I thought they'd said at Oulton that Swindon had turned the boost down to preserve the engine (crankshaft problems)?
The engine they ran last year had sufficient power (which was allowed special modifications, agreed to by the other teams) to win the championship, they're certainly going backwards this season...

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

This just seems like public bleating (something that JP is very good at) in the hope that TOCA will allow them more engine power (to make up for their lack of pace/budget/development).
Mind you, that would be if their lack of power was because it'd been turned down by TOCA in the first place, but I thought they'd said at Oulton that Swindon had turned the boost down to preserve the engine (crankshaft problems)?
The engine they ran last year had sufficient power (which was allowed special modifications, agreed to by the other teams) to win the championship, they're certainly going backwards this season...

its not up to TOCA to give them more power due to their lack of pace/development/budget. and to be fair thats why you dont even hear plato complaining that they should be giving them more boost. their issues are for more fundamental than that.

[Racer65]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

The engine they ran last year had sufficient power (which was allowed special modifications, agreed to by the other teams) to win the championship, they're certainly going backwards this season...

They weren't the first and probably won't be the last that were allowed to change things mid-season with other teams agreements. Unlike F1 the BTCC paddock is far more aware of the big picture I feel.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Matt K

I wonder if there's any help for Subaru/BMR. I bet this is their last year in BTCC - or at least last as a factory outfit.

I can see this being the downfall of BMR. When Scott brought the team into the championship, he funded it with pretty much his own money alone, until the sponsors came along.
Now they are in their 3rd season as a "manufacturer" team and a 2nd season with very poor financial backing. With the reigning champion in the team it is odd that they haven't been able to raise more sponsorship for this year, I wonder how much of this year's budget was used to settle last year's bills.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

its not up to TOCA to give them more power due to their lack of pace/development/budget. and to be fair thats why you dont even hear plato complaining that they should be giving them more boost. their issues are for more fundamental than that.

I realise that it's not TOCA's job to do that but I personally feel that the point of the public bleating is to encourage TOCA to allow them more power which would be a simple way of reducing the Subaru's lap times.

Originally Posted by Racer65

They weren't the first and probably won't be the last that were allowed to change things mid-season with other teams agreements. Unlike F1 the BTCC paddock is far more aware of the big picture I feel.

I wasn't criticising the team (or TOCA) for the engine modifications, I was making the point that they were allowed some special engine changes last year that enabled Mountune to give them an engine that was on the pace. This doesn't now appear to be the case.

Originally Posted by RS67

I can see this being the downfall of BMR. When Scott brought the team into the championship, he funded it with pretty much his own money alone, until the sponsors came along.
Now they are in their 3rd season as a "manufacturer" team and a 2nd season with very poor financial backing. With the reigning champion in the team it is odd that they haven't been able to raise more sponsorship for this year, I wonder how much of this year's budget was used to settle last year's bills.

I think this has a lot to do with the problem. Unfortunately Mr Scott doesn't appear to have heard Sir Patrick Head's answer to the question "How do you make a small fortune in Motor-Sport?" ("Start off with a large one!")

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Racer65

They weren't the first and probably won't be the last that were allowed to change things mid-season with other teams agreements. Unlike F1 the BTCC paddock is far more aware of the big picture I feel.

You aren't comparing apples with apples. These days, BTCC is first and foremost entertainment not sport. It's all about the show, and if tweaking the regs or allowing mid-season changes helps to improve the show, then that's exactly what will happen.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I realise that it's not TOCA's job to do that but I personally feel that the point of the public bleating is to encourage TOCA to allow them more power which would be a simple way of reducing the Subaru's lap times.

toca are not that crazy enough to do that! because then every team will just ask for more boost when they havent done enough testing or development. its not up to toca to make a team competitive if they just havent done a good enough job.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I realise that it's not TOCA's job to do that but I personally feel that the point of the public bleating is to encourage TOCA to allow them more power which would be a simple way of reducing the Subaru's lap times.

But they aren't running at the power levels TOCA have already allowed them. The engines are unable to sustain the power without destroying the crankshaft/bearings, so they are forced to reduce the power. If it is true that Swindon were cheaper than Mountune, I wonder how if that will change by the seasons end and the final bill comes in.

[medius]

I feel the woes we are seeing are the result of trying to live a champagne and caviar operation on a prosecco and Quavers budget. No amount of boost fiddling is going to fix poor management/poor budgeting. The package is just a long way behind everybody else. They all took a step forwards this term while BMR treaded water at best. Unless a new source of funding comes forward, I don't think we'll have a fresh reason to discuss them much in future in any positive way sadly.

[Alfisti]

More power is not what BMR need even if that was something TOCA waved a wand to give them.

The engines are fragile and BMR have turned down performance so they don't blow up.

Why they are so fragile is the pertinent question: is it simply (and I don't know this - but would be my educated guess) a case that they are now very old, pretty knackered and Swindon can't do much with them?

Yet Scott acquires a TCR car to play out in. Still hasn't filed his accounts but the strike off action has been stopped: so he has appeased Companies House. He also bleats on about European or World TCR: I think the man is not listening to his accountant or is banking on a lottery win...

[Racer65]

Originally Posted by redshoes

You aren't comparing apples with apples. These days, BTCC is first and foremost entertainment not sport. It's all about the show, and if tweaking the regs or allowing mid-season changes helps to improve the show, then that's exactly what will happen.

The teams aren't so worried about the entertainment angle though that's more TOCA but they are still capable of seeing what is good for the series as a whole which is glaringly not the case in F1. Some F1 teams would seem to be happy with a six car championship that they could dominate regardless if anyone was watching. Don't get that impression, for whatever reason, with the BTCC.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The engines are fragile and BMR have turned down performance so they don't blow up.

Why they are so fragile is the pertinent question: is it simply (and I don't know this - but would be my educated guess) a case that they are now very old, pretty knackered and Swindon can't do much with them?

That is probably not too far from the truth. Once settling the Mountune bill, they were given the engines, but from what I have heard, they didn't get any spares. So has the deal that BMR has done with Swindon included manufacturing or sourcing the spares required, 4 meetings in and still running reduced power, it is looking unlikely.

[aland]

ask any scooby person about the flat 4 and you will always get the same answer, the bottom end is fragile, it has always been that way in its various incarnations due to the small diameter of the main and big end bearings. in road car form 250 brake is fine as long as your not red lining all the time. the rally boys can run 400 again they bang if you red line them.

now in a btcc race the engines are running 350-400 brake and the nature of the tracks they are getting pushed in all the gears, getting red lined constantly for the full race, the bearings cant take it, the cranks cant take it. Even in time attack and sprints they are only doing 2 or 3 laps flat out then allowed to cool. hardly surprising in btcc they are going bang. bmr could fit the standard toca unit but the weight distribution would be to pot

[Alfisti]

Given the weight added in the vicinity of the dash to remove the Subarus low centre of gravity removed the big advantage prior to the 2017 season, maybe a standard TOCA unit wouldn't upset things too dramatically? Of course this will remain speculation as Scott is unlikely to be opening his wallet... maybe next year run by another team? 😉

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by aland

ask any scooby person about the flat 4 and you will always get the same answer, the bottom end is fragile, it has always been that way in its various incarnations due to the small diameter of the main and big end bearings. in road car form 250 brake is fine as long as your not red lining all the time. the rally boys can run 400 again they bang if you red line them.
All week and good except last years engines won the Championship.
now in a btcc race the engines are running 350-400 brake and the nature of the tracks they are getting pushed in all the gears, getting red lined constantly for the full race, the bearings cant take it, the cranks cant take it. Even in time attack and sprints they are only doing 2 or 3 laps flat out then allowed to cool. hardly surprising in btcc they are going bang. bmr could fit the standard toca unit but the weight distribution would be to pot

All well and good except last years Motors won the Championship

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Given the weight added in the vicinity of the dash to remove the Subarus low centre of gravity removed the big advantage prior to the 2017 season, maybe a standard TOCA unit wouldn't upset things too dramatically? Of course this will remain speculation as Scott is unlikely to be opening his wallet... maybe next year run by another team? 😉

The ballast on the bulkhead compensates for the low CoG and the handling advantage of the engine being mounted so far back.
It is very unlikely that a TOCA engine would find it's way into the car as Subaru (even though I suspect their financial input isn't that great) will want their own engine in the cars.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

All well and good except last years Motors won the Championship

Moral of the story is, when you have a good engine builder, pay your bills on time.

[Racer65]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

All well and good except last years Motors won the Championship

They weren't particularly good engines last year either but everyone else has improved while they've gone backwards. Even with the same setup as last year they'd be struggling.