Red Flag?

[krt917]

Apologies if this has already been covere, but did anyone else think that the Spanish GP should have been red-flagged after Kimi's startline shunt (and DC and Trulli, for that matter). I know that F1 has to keep to a tight schedule these days and that the FIA love to see their Mercedes safety car racing round, but I though that the race should have been restarted because:
- It would have given more time for the marshals to clear up the debris properly. Have the FIA learned nothing from accidents, like Ayrton's at Imola, where debris have been considered as potential accident-causers?
- From a specatating point of view using the safety car meant we had fewer racing laps and had lost several of the quicker cars.

I suppose that they might justify it on the grounds that red-flagging would have resulted in another 'dangerous' start. Oh, and I guess that it would have cause confusion over the new rules as well!

[Ste]

I thought the race should have been red flagged, but I can understand why it wasn't. Whiting obviously thought is was safe enough to clear the cars away with the safety car out, and probably didn't want to risk another pile up if there was a restart.

[Hugh Jarce]

I must admit I was surprised at that too. Especially with a shunted car in the middle of the track - after the issues at Brazil!

Perhaps the marshalls were still eating their hot dogs!

Bet Jarno would have appreciated it!

[BootsOntheSide]

It surprised me that they used the safety car, epseically as the crash was on the startline, so they had to pass through it before the safety car picked them up. Still, they seemingly did a good job of clearing it up, there was no debris left.

The tendency to keep the races ging under all circumstances i getting silly. In Australia and Monza it was downright offensive to carry on as normal while those brave marshals were fatally injured, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same thing if it were a driver. Initially I wondered if Kimi's legs were damaged, judging from the impact.

[ASCII Man]

Nah, he wasn't going that fast, maybe 100 km/h but not much faster.

[Stephen Green]

In my opinion it was a borderline case. The car being just off the centre of the track meant the safety car and race cars could get by whilst work carried on trackside. You have to remember that all the cars passed the accident before the safety car picked them up and so they all knew where the accident was and could make sure they slowed down enough the next time around. Even so, as a marshal I can tell you it's quite scary at times being that close to cars of that speed. Well done the marshals for a speedy and excellent clear up.

[Asp]

Red Flag does seem to have become a dirty work at the start of GPS recently though. Remember only about '99, if more than 1 car stalled on the grid, a red flag came out. Some circuits, 1 car stalling was enough to abort the start!

Yet, recently, it's not happened *whatever* happens at the start. Australia last year being a prime example - as was discussed a great deal at the time. Other instances - Austria '01 with 4 cars stuck on the grid: Austria as a shorter track used to be one of the first to cause an aborted start. Hockenheim '01 when TGF went over Burti was a very controversial issue with a SC followed by a red flag a lap later.

I'm generally more in favour of a red flag, both for racing reasons as mentioned by krt - but particularly Boot's point that at most curcuits, if there's a startline accident you hae to pass through the accident zone before being picked up by the SC.

Perhaps a while back, there was a tendency to be too willing to stop a race, nowadays it appears to have gone the other way. That said, it's a very fine line to balance any day!

[Jordi]

Each case has it's own thing... I think Safety Car was the right decision.. but for example in Australia 2002 I would have stopped the race...

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
The tendency to keep the races ging under all circumstances i getting silly. In Australia and Monza it was downright offensive to carry on as normal while those brave marshals were fatally injured, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same thing if it were a driver.

I don't think they would do it if a driver got injured. Spa 2001 is a good example with Burti's near-fatal accident.

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by Jordi
Each case has it's own thing... I think Safety Car was the right decision.. but for example in Australia 2002 I would have stopped the race...

The ONLY reason that race wasn't stopped is because Mark Webber's Minardi was not involved or damaged in the incident!

[jetsetter]

I thought last weekend's race should have been red flagged to give the marshall's a chance to clean the debris properly.

[Irv the Swerve]

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
The ONLY reason that race wasn't stopped is because Mark Webber's Minardi was not involved or damaged in the incident!

Ditto Hockenheim in 2001 when Micky the Shoe WAS involved in the incident and there WAS a red flag....

[ljakse]

Good point!
I was really surprised when I saw Kimi's car still on track when Ferraris came around.
That looked DANGEROUS!

[Kex]

Germany 2001 was acceptable, there was a hell of a lot of debris across the whole track. And you wouldn't want to have a 200mph tyre blow out.

[Lee Yue Yang]

I think that it should have been.It was the obvious best thing to do while Kimi's car and a truck was on the track!

[Matthopps]

Originally posted by Lee Yue Yang
I think that it should have been.It was the obvious best thing to do while Kimi's car and a truck was on the track!

Well said, reinforces the arguement (was it suggested by Damon Hill) that a former driver should be alongside Charlie Whiting to oversee and control the grands prix. Thus, with a former driver in charge, it might have become clear just how dangerous the situation was, particularly if the driver in control has had startline accidents before - any suggestions as to who that former driver should be?

[racer69]

The point of the safety car is to keep the race going if there is an accident/dangerous happening on the circuit at a slower pace.

As long as there is room for the cars to get safely through single file, then the safety is ok.

Just because there is an accident that takes out some of the leading competitors or just because it happens at the start of the race is absolutly no excuse for red flagging a race when the safety can still get through. (although to an extent Australia 2001 was pushing it)

The happenings of Spain 2003 and Australia 2002 are completely correct. By redflagging races when they can continue at a slower race is just letting drivers off the hook and artificially placing them back in the race.

[ringo]

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
The ONLY reason that race wasn't stopped is because Mark Webber's Minardi was not involved or damaged in the incident!

your dreaming

[bingman]

you guys are never happy... if there was a red flag and there was another crash (or even if there wasn't) you would all be whining

[Sodemo]

Would we?

I think the race should have been red - flagged, both from a safety and a show "point of view".
The race should have been stopped as effectivly 3 cars were eliminated in the first 10 seconds, leaving one stranded on track. This was both dangerous and robbed the race of 3 cars, especially when these days of only 20 cars starting a Grand Prix we need as many runners as possible, Australia last year was a total farce as well, half the field wiped out and the don't put the red flag out?

Their argument for this is that they want to keep TV people happy by not overrunning, well im not sure what the TV people made of the 11 car race.

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by ringo
your dreaming

Well, I probably am It just seems a bit suspicious that half the field was taken out, with loads of debris all over the track (not as much as Hockenheim 2001 though), but guess who was the main beneficiary of letting the race continue? Mark Webber. I wonder how they would have reacted had he got involved in the first lap mayhem?

[J.McClane]

I'd have thought a red un' should have been used.

What if a car had spun just comming round to the start/finish?
Not only would it have had 2 cars to avoid, but a truck too.

Maybe it wasn't hugly dangerous, but still a risk not worth taking.

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by Lee Yue Yang
I think that it should have been.It was the obvious best thing to do while Kimi's car and a truck was on the track!

I agree it would have been wiser to stop the race.

[krt917]

Thanks guys, it's good to know I'm not completely mad. Even Autosport didn't seem to talk about the safety car Vs Red Flag scenario.