No driver orders at Mclaren?/McLaren under investigation

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Paulc

Youve obviously been conditioned to enjoy "modern bland F1 racing"with all its traits team orders etc, just the fans Bernie wants nowdays.technology,glamour oh yeah,racers oh no thats a thing of the past, for a start dump TC cos F1 has died a death ever since this was brought in,check out the none TC Gp2 Monaco race most of the accidents were caused by not having TC,yes the cars were a handfull ask Mike Conway but it was far more entertaining than the F1 race.I dont get it why cant the pinnicle of motorsport be fun anymore?I guess the only way this will change is with the demise of Ecclestone .This says it all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUkv6P-2SAw

Says it all?
What a great lap, a great car, a great driver, love it, but a fail to see what that, or the rest of your nonsensical post, has to do with this topic. Perhaps you meant to start a ramblings about how bad F1 is at the moment thread? A shame, because I could have avoided it from the start. I prefer the old days, but I also like a decent discussion.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by marcel82

technically, what he said was:

if there had been a SC, Hamilton would've won
if there was no SC, Alonso would've won

that was their "strategy"

Unless of course it was one or both of the Mclarens that had caused the safety car to come out in the first place.

Oh dear,F1 is in danger of becoming an exact science.

[Adam43]

The precise reason you might do something like that is an indication that it isn't an exact science.

[Paulc]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Define "race".

"Act of running in competition for a prize". Competition being the definative word here does "competition" come into team orders? it can be argued that the "competition" is lacking due to TC and other driver aids.

[Knowlesy]

So this a discussion on driver aids now?

Blimey, how threads evolve!

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Paulc

"Act of running in competition for a prize". Competition being the definative word here does "competition" come into team orders?

Prize: What McLaren won and the other competitors didn't.

it can be argued that the "competition" is lacking due to TC and other driver aids.

Perhaps, but elsewhere.

[Frank_White]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Define "race".

I understand your position. However, you must admit that Alonso was favoured for the Monaco victory from the very beginning. H qualified with 5-6 laps of fuel less than Hamilton. This effectively gave him pole. every race this year bar one was won from pole. the exception was Malaysia and that doesn't count because Alonso overtook Ferrari at the start.

Talking about Alonso's laps: At every stage of the race except the final stint Alonso raced with markedly less fuel that Hamilton. Hamilton was brought in early for his first and Second stops.

effectively Hamilton was given no chance to win. A safety car would not have given Hamilton the victory either unless it came precisely between laps say 7-15. At the beginning of the race it would have made no difference and after 15 laps Alonso would have just pitted and filled up with fuel.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

The precise reason you might do something like that is an indication that it isn't an exact science.

Well,not yet anyway.

I'm just really thankfull that these days we have two cars up front not racing instead of the usual one.

[Paulc]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Says it all?
What a great lap, a great car, a great driver, love it, but a fail to see what that, or the rest of your nonsensical post, has to do with this topic. Perhaps you meant to start a ramblings about how bad F1 is at the moment thread? A shame, because I could have avoided it from the start. I prefer the old days, but I also like a decent discussion.

Simple if you dont like the discussion leave it,others are debating ok about this.We wont miss you promise!

[Paulc]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

So this a discussion on driver aids now?

Blimey, how threads evolve!

The discussion is about the current state of F1.

[Knowlesy]

But Frank. There will always be one car or another that is fuelled lighter. Was Lewis not fuelled lighter in Bahrain? As a result, he was on the front row instead of scrapping with Kimi.

Lewis was lighter at Melbourne too I think.

It will change from race to race who is lighter and is usually based on practice form. Alonso had the more trouble free and smooth practices, so he was given that strategy. I don't think it is anything sinister.

Had it been the other way round, we'd have exactly the same complaints, albeit probably less vociferous and probably confined simply to the race thread.

[Frank_White]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

But Frank. There will always be one car or another that is fuelled lighter. Was Lewis not fuelled lighter in Bahrain? As a result, he was on the front row instead of scrapping with Kimi.

Lewis was lighter at Melbourne too I think.

It will change from race to race who is lighter and is usually based on practice form. Alonso had the more trouble free and smooth practices, so he was given that strategy. I don't think it is anything sinister.

Had it been the other way round, we'd have exactly the same complaints, albeit probably less vociferous and probably confined simply to the race thread.

One car is usually lighter but never by 6 laps (in Monaco come on) Lewis was heavier in all races except Bahrain (2 laps lighter). He then qualified better than Alonso and dominated him all race.

[Knowlesy]

Yes, but if Lewis had been quick enough he may have utilised his heavier load to great effect and jumped Fernando. He wasn't quick enough though.

Also, Lewis made the errors in qualifying that could have cost him pole. It's just hard luck, there will be other days.

[Frank_White]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Yes, but if Lewis had been quick enough he may have utilised his heavier load to great effect and jumped Fernando. He wasn't quick enough though.

Also, Lewis made the errors in qualifying that could have cost him pole. It's just hard luck, there will be other days.

So you honestly expected Lewis to:
1. Outqualify alonso with 6 laps extra of fuel;
2. Be faster than Alonso in the first stint carrying 6 laps extra of fuel;
3. Recover the gap despite being called into the pits 3 laps early?

Lewis is just a rookie not superman.

[Knowlesy]

If he was indeed the quicker guy as I am lead to believe by many here, yes.

[Frank_White]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59249

FIA investigation.

[Paulc]

Originally Posted by Frank_White

One car is usually lighter but never by 6 laps (in Monaco come on) Lewis was heavier in all races except Bahrain (2 laps lighter). He then qualified better than Alonso and dominated him all race.

This obviously shows that RD made his mind up early on to hold back on Hamilton,I really think he didnt realise that Lewis was going to be that good,maybe he's pushing for Alonso this year knowing he's got a great chance with Hamilton next year?

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Frank_White

H qualified with 5-6 laps of fuel less than Hamilton. This effectively gave him pole.

Fernando pitted on lap 26, Lewis 29, then 51 and 53. Not sure where you get 5-6 laps from????

[Frank_White]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

If he was indeed the quicker guy as I am lead to believe by many here, yes.

He had 6 laps of fuel extra. Dont you get it?

[Paulc]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

If he was indeed the quicker guy as I am lead to believe by many here, yes.

How could he be quicker with a heavier car? it makes no sense at all.

[Knowlesy]

Well if this truly warrants investigation, a lot of race results will need to be reviewed retrospectively.

Quite how they will prove this I am unsure. Quite what would be punishable I am at a loss.

6 laps lighter in Monaco probably sounds a lot, but don't forget the fuel consumption there is probably a fair bit less than other tracks.

Would we be having this debate if the shoe was on the other foot? I'm as eager as anyone for Lewis to get a win, but he wasn't good enough this weekend. Simple facts sort this out. His time is very close however.

[Frank_White]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Fernando pitted on lap 26, Lewis 29, then 51 and 53. Not sure where you get 5-6 laps from????

Lewis stated he was fuel to run up to 6 laps longer than Fernando in the first stint.

In the second stint Lewis took on more fuel than Fernando again coupled with the fact that he had stopped 3 laps later. Yet he was called in right after Alonso for his second stop. He should have been able to run 6 laps longer again.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Paulc

How could he be quicker with a heavier car? it makes no sense at all.

Come off it. How often did Michael, and many others, jump folk by running a great deal laps longer?

[Paulc]

Originally Posted by Frank_White

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59249

FIA investigation.

He He nuff said .

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Frank_White

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59249

From Autosport....

That move drew widespread criticisms in some quarters, especially from an angry British media, as it prevented Hamilton from fighting for the maiden win that he was so desperate to score.

FIA investigation.

And the gutter press, sorry, the British media wouldn't have muttered a word had the drivers been told to "hold station" with Lewis leading.

Can anyone tell me, when, fighting for the lead, one driver overtook his team-mate during a race at Monaco? Had McLaren been suicidal enough to let their drivers beat each other up on the track, i'd bet Lewis wouldn't have managed to get past anyway, not without damaging his own and/or Fernando's race.