Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 21 Aug 2012, 10:42 (Ref:3122479)   #26
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Let me also point out the AFL (prev VFL) grand final has been held over varius weekend over a 8 week period, they still count them all.

The NRL, under varius names has done the same thing

And the ARDC would not have been able to hold Bathurst on the NSW Labour day holiday in 2000 (because of the olympics), so according to some of you, it would have died then anyway.
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 21 Aug 2012, 11:16 (Ref:3122494)   #27
NinnyMan
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Australia
Melbourne
Posts: 243
NinnyMan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think the "V8 Supercars" element needs to be taken out of the issue.

2012 simply marks 50 years since the first mainstream endurance race
for production/touring/supercars at Mount Panorama, Bathurst.

Even if there were no races in 97 and 98, instead of 2, we would be still
celebrating 50 years since the first event. I don't believe V8SC are hi-jacking
the event or claiming it to be the 50th running of the Bathurst 1000.
If anyone does, they are wrong. You need to make the distinction
between it being 50 years as opposed to 50 events.

Regardless of whether it's V8 Supercars, Production Cars or 2 Litres etc
let's celebrate the event for what it is : 50 yrs that has seen the evolution
of Australian motoring and motorsport at the greatest bit of road on the planet.

Everything evolves and we will see that heritage on display this year.
NinnyMan is offline  
Quote
Old 21 Aug 2012, 11:21 (Ref:3122496)   #28
Gaz170
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Australia
Gold Coast, QLD
Posts: 1,506
Gaz170 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGaz170 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGaz170 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
Lets seee have any ARDC members commented on this (either ex or current)?

There lies your answer, Still bitter that they backed the wrong horse!
History is written by the winners...... (sorry can't remember who said that originally)
Gaz170 is offline  
__________________
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
Quote
Old 21 Aug 2012, 11:33 (Ref:3122500)   #29
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinnyMan View Post
I think the "V8 Supercars" element needs to be taken out of the issue.

2012 simply marks 50 years since the first mainstream endurance race
for production/touring/supercars at Mount Panorama, Bathurst.

Even if there were no races in 97 and 98, instead of 2, we would be still
celebrating 50 years since the first event. I don't believe V8SC are hi-jacking
the event or claiming it to be the 50th running of the Bathurst 1000.
If anyone does, they are wrong. You need to make the distinction
between it being 50 years as opposed to 50 events.

Regardless of whether it's V8 Supercars, Production Cars or 2 Litres etc
let's celebrate the event for what it is : 50 yrs that has seen the evolution
of Australian motoring and motorsport at the greatest bit of road on the planet.

Everything evolves and we will see that heritage on display this year.
Probably the best way to put it.
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Old 21 Aug 2012, 11:33 (Ref:3122501)   #30
DV_08
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Australia
Melbourne
Posts: 172
DV_08 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I with NinnyMann on this one.
DV_08 is offline  
Quote
Old 21 Aug 2012, 11:44 (Ref:3122503)   #31
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,262
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
let see in 1996 Ford and Holden v8's car (that were eligible for the ATCC) ran exclusively at bathurst in a 1000km race using the telecaster of the ATCC.

In 1997 Ford and holden v8's car that were eligible for the ATCC ran exclusively at bathurst in a 1000km race using the telecaster of the ATCC

Teams that ran at both HRT, DJR, GSR, Perkins, Gibson, Longhurst racing and many others. Drivers that were the same in both races - more than 50. ATC champions racing, at least 6

The major differences, different weekend, different promoter, the field was bigger and the crowd was bigger

In 1997 cars that were not eligible for the ATCC ran a 1000km race using a telecaster who was the not the telecaster of the v8 race

Cars the same, none, teams the same none, drivers the same possibly ten crowd significantly smaller, size of field about 1 third smaller. ATC champiosn racing - 2
Things in common same promoter, same race weekend

Now which one sounds the most the same.
If you are using ATCC cars as the guide, what do you think of any pre-1973 Bathurst 500??

Bathurst was a completely seperate event from the ATCC, in organisation and even for some years a completely different class structure! Just because cars in the ATCC were eligible for Bathurst does not make them one and the same.


As an example, the 1984 German GP was held at the Nurburgring. In 1985 the German GP was held at Hockenheim, but later in the year the Nurburgring hosted the European GP.... the 1985 European GP at the Nurburgring had mostly the same teams & drivers as the 1984 German GP at the Nurburgring.... but it would be wrong for the 1985 European GP winner to claim he had won the German GP, correct?

Now apply that here

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinnyMan
2012 simply marks 50 years since the first mainstream endurance race
Now we are getting somewhere!

2012 marks 50 years since the 1962 Bathurst 6hrs , the race used to show that Mt Panorama was up to taking over the 500 from Phillip Island in 1963.
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 21 Aug 2012, 11:57 (Ref:3122507)   #32
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
If you are using ATCC cars as the guide, what do you think of any pre-1973 Bathurst 500??

Bathurst was a completely seperate event from the ATCC, in organisation and even for some years a completely different class structure! Just because cars in the ATCC were eligible for Bathurst does not make them one and the same.


As an example, the 1984 German GP was held at the Nurburgring. In 1985 the German GP was held at Hockenheim, but later in the year the Nurburgring hosted the European GP.... the 1985 European GP at the Nurburgring had mostly the same teams & drivers as the 1984 German GP at the Nurburgring.... but it would be wrong for the 1985 European GP winner to claim he had won the German GP, correct?

Now apply that here


I didn'y use ATCC cars as a guide, but nice attempt at creating a strawman with some waffle about F1.

I said in 1996 we had ATCC cars and we did in 1997 also. to show which race was the same and which one wasn't But as you pointed out for the previous 23 years and also for the subsequent 15 (or whatever the number is) THE ATCC cars have been the standard at Bathurst 1000 race.

There are two parties involved in what happened in the race, The winner was gracious and acknowledged the history of the race including the two competiting races (but not the travisty of 99). they have included it as part of their history since at least 2001. They have moved on

Some from the losing side are still bitter though.
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Aug 2012, 09:37 (Ref:3122902)   #33
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,262
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
I said in 1996 we had ATCC cars and we did in 1997 also. to show which race was the same and which one wasn't
I start a race, say the 'one five five 1000', and run it for 20 years at, say Sandown, with a similiar competitor base each year.

In the 21st year you come along and start the 'peckstar 1000', running it at Sandown too, and all my entrants choose to race in your race.

This leaves me to change my regulations and get different entrants.

Would you try and claim the 'peckstar 1000' was actually the 'one five five 1000'??

Of course not

Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
Some from the losing side are still bitter though.
I never had a side

I've always enjoyed V8 racing and happily watch the V8Supercars race at Bathurst each year.

However i am interested in accurate record keeping & statistics
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Aug 2012, 09:52 (Ref:3122909)   #34
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
I start a race, say the 'one five five 1000', and run it for 20 years at, say Sandown, with a similiar competitor base each year.

In the 21st year you come along and start the 'peckstar 1000', running it at Sandown too, and all my entrants choose to race in your race.

This leaves me to change my regulations and get different entrants.

Would you try and claim the 'peckstar 1000' was actually the 'one five five 1000'??

Of course not
Why wouldnt I?

Sandown 500 will have a different promoter this time, than last time it was run. It will also be on a different weekend. Does that mean they cant use the history of previous 500's?

They're just a promoter, its the product that's the important thing.
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Aug 2012, 12:11 (Ref:3122972)   #35
D.R.T.
Veteran
 
D.R.T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location:
Sydeny
Posts: 8,963
D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
However i am interested in accurate record keeping & statistics
Sadly this is not something shared by V8SA - just ask Aaron Noonan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar
There are two parties involved in what happened in the race, The winner was gracious and acknowledged the history of the race including the two competiting races
Haha - you mean like V8SA ignoring Jim Richards 1998 Bathurst 1000 victory for many years and referring to him as a 5 time winner from 1999
D.R.T. is offline  
__________________
Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film
Quote
Old 22 Aug 2012, 12:23 (Ref:3122983)   #36
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.R.T. View Post
Sadly this is not something shared by V8SA - just ask Aaron Noonan.

DRT i fail to see how this is not something shared by V8SA when they are celbrating this year, when the are getting cars from all the years of racing to come along


Haha - you mean like V8SA ignoring Jim Richards 1998 Bathurst 1000 victory for many years and referring to him as a 5 time winner from 1999
in 1999, you guys at the ARDC werl still doing your best to destroy motorsport in Australia. (here's an idea lets have a 500km race instead and then get some tarted up fords and holdens to have a 2nd race on the day to copy the other race. Fortunately God punished you for even considering it)

The battle hadn't been won in 1999 then they could hardly be gracious winners then,

Last edited by peckstar; 22 Aug 2012 at 12:38.
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Aug 2012, 12:29 (Ref:3122994)   #37
D.R.T.
Veteran
 
D.R.T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location:
Sydeny
Posts: 8,963
D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Thanks Peckstar - great response
D.R.T. is offline  
__________________
Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film
Quote
Old 22 Aug 2012, 12:58 (Ref:3123005)   #38
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
it was interesting to watch Howzat the other night (looking forward to Sunday)
Cricket needed a shake up, the cricketers were not seeing their share of the money, so a coup happened

AFL was the same, but it was reasonable bloodless
NRL was the same, but there was a lot of Bloodshed

and Motorsport was the same. TEGA took over and signed a new tv partner and there was some bloodshed, mainly the blood of the ARDC, but also some of Bathursts, (and the promoters/track management at other tracks) It could have been painless, but channel 7 got stubborn because they really only wanted bathurst and not the series and because they were tied up with the ARDC well what happened, happened.

Channel 7 said we have the rights to Bathurst. V8SA said well channel ten have the rights to V8Supercars/ATCC, so there was a clash. So channel 7 went there own way with their own cars in a poorly supported race and V8SA with channel ten went to a different weekend and had one of the best ever attended Bathursts and certainly the best for many years.
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Aug 2012, 13:39 (Ref:3123028)   #39
Shane001
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Australia
Posts: 309
Shane001 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
it was interesting to watch Howzat the other night (looking forward to Sunday)
That was entertaining TV! Also looking forward to the next episode.

It's amazing what all these players used to be paid vs what they are now.
Shane001 is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Aug 2012, 08:33 (Ref:3123398)   #40
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,262
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
Sandown 500 will have a different promoter this time, than last time it was run. It will also be on a different weekend. Does that mean they cant use the history of previous 500's?
No promoter ever tried running a rival Sandown 500 (though it came close in 2003) to 'challenge' the original.

IMG were the last promoters of the Sandown 500 on behalf of Jon Davison who was running the track. Now that the horse racing fraternity run the track themselves, they have put another promoter in charge.

But at no time was a promoter holding a rival Sandown 500 denouncing the other event, then trying years later to claim it all as their own.

You can't have it both ways (but V8Supercars obviously thinks it can)

Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
in 1999, you guys at the ARDC werl still doing your best to destroy motorsport in Australia. (here's an idea lets have a 500km race instead and then get some tarted up fords and holdens to have a 2nd race on the day to copy the other race. Fortunately God punished you for even considering it)
You accuse myself of giving you "the impression that you are too young to remember and your relying on Wikipedia."

Perhaps you should get some facts straight before unloading unfairly on other members

the ARDC had nothing officially to do with the running of the 1999 Bathurst 500 event (they may have provided some officials as hired help, but that was it). The ultimate format of the event was the brainchild of Advantage International (which became Octagon) and Channel 7
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Aug 2012, 08:45 (Ref:3123407)   #41
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post

You accuse myself of giving you "the impression that you are too young to remember and your relying on Wikipedia."

Perhaps you should get some facts straight before unloading unfairly on other members

the ARDC had nothing officially to do with the running of the 1999 Bathurst 500 event (they may have provided some officials as hired help, but that was it). The ultimate format of the event was the brainchild of Advantage International (which became Octagon) and Channel 7
its not that i am too young, i just didn;t care about that race (or of i did it wass 13 years ago.

doesnt really change much though. the ARDC killed the race we had then
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Aug 2012, 10:30 (Ref:3123459)   #42
St00ge
Veteran
 
St00ge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 702
St00ge should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I see the handbags are still swinging in here girls!!!
St00ge is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Aug 2012, 12:26 (Ref:3123531)   #43
D.R.T.
Veteran
 
D.R.T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location:
Sydeny
Posts: 8,963
D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
i just didn;t care about that race (or of i did it wass 13 years ago.
Great to see you commenting on it then Peckstar.
D.R.T. is offline  
__________________
Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film
Quote
Old 23 Aug 2012, 22:53 (Ref:3123815)   #44
Axeman444
Veteran
 
Axeman444's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Australia
Calling a spade a spade...
Posts: 4,117
Axeman444 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridAxeman444 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.R.T. View Post
Great to see you commenting on it then Peckstar.
for once i agree with you D.R.T. I'm going to print this page and frame it, and shall hoist a beverage in it's direction regularly
Axeman444 is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Aug 2012, 10:59 (Ref:3124029)   #45
FAS33
Veteran
 
FAS33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Australia
1st - 6th gear
Posts: 1,785
FAS33 User had had their licence endorsedFAS33 User had had their licence endorsed
we should meet up somewhere, lets have a drag race guys.
FAS33 is offline  
__________________
Everyone knows blue cars are the fastest.
Quote
Old 30 Aug 2012, 05:17 (Ref:3127195)   #46
David Towe
Veteran
 
David Towe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
England
Glenmore Park NSW
Posts: 1,279
David Towe should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
DRT, Axeman and one five five, please be quiet, you're only encouraging Pecky.
BTW Pecky, please go to a record shop and by a new one, you're sounding a lot like a broken record. The bonus in actually going to a record store and not simply buying one on line is that you have to stand up to go out and that will give your brain a rest. Don't forget to lift your arms when walking so as not to take anymore skin off your knuckles.
Also Pecky, you might like to try to remember that when the news of the Supertouring Bathurst was announced on Ch 7 news and sport programmes, it was also announced it would keep the rights to "The Great Race" tag.
David Towe is offline  
__________________
"The past is knowledge, the present our mistake, the future we always leave too late" Paul Weller (The Style Coulcil)
Quote
Old 30 Aug 2012, 07:29 (Ref:3127231)   #47
smokin'joe
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 849
smokin'joe should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAS33 View Post
we should meet up somewhere, lets have a drag race guys.
i know your trying your damndest to up your post count, but you will look bloody silly in a dress
smokin'joe is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Aug 2012, 10:43 (Ref:3127313)   #48
275 GTB-4
Veteran
 
275 GTB-4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Australia
South of Sydney NSW, Australie
Posts: 3,499
275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by eduardo1 View Post
Why on earth are people still carrying on about this?

The current V8 Supercar era is part of the history of the Bathurst 500/1000. From production-based cars, to Group C, to Group A and a parallel couple of years that had Super Touring cars and V8s.

When the 'split' happened, both sides had a claim for tradition. The Super Tourers for the traditional date and organisers; the V8s as the the event had been for the competitors in the Australian Touring Car Championship (which since 1993 has been the V8s).

When the Super Tourers failed, the correct and obvious decision was to merge the history of the traditional date and the traditional category. Both Super Tourers and V8s have added to the history and prestige of 'The Great Race'. Why do we need to keep having this discussion nearly 15 years later?
Think about what you have just said....and move on...
275 GTB-4 is offline  
__________________
The good old days sure seem like a long time ago!!
Quote
Old 30 Aug 2012, 22:16 (Ref:3127647)   #49
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Towe View Post
DRT, Axeman and one five five, please be quiet, you're only encouraging Pecky.
BTW Pecky, please go to a record shop and by a new one, you're sounding a lot like a broken record. The bonus in actually going to a record store and not simply buying one on line is that you have to stand up to go out and that will give your brain a rest. Don't forget to lift your arms when walking so as not to take anymore skin off your knuckles.
Also Pecky, you might like to try to remember that when the news of the Supertouring Bathurst was announced on Ch 7 news and sport programmes, it was also announced it would keep the rights to "The Great Race" tag.
thank you for such a wise and well thought out post.

you truly raise the standard of posting

DH
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
50 Great Bathurst Quotes Average Punter Australasian Touring Cars. 42 29 Aug 2012 12:30
Bathurst 50th Anniversary Meeting Officials Oreti kid Marshals Forum 3 14 Aug 2012 15:32
The team bosses silly quotes thread Inigo Montoya Formula One 25 3 Nov 2003 00:33


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.