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Old 13 Apr 2004, 16:10 (Ref:938474)   #1
LC2guy
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LC2guy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridLC2guy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
LMGT's @ Le Mans

In my humble, yet controversial opinion, i think Le Mans is in a strong enough position to drop the GT class. There is more than enough Prototype interest in LMP1 and LMP2 , and the road car fans can go nuts over GTS. Forget about unreliability , and only seeing 10 cars on a sunday morning, that used to be part of the 24 hours charm. Reliability nowadays is much better than it used to be. I know the ACO might be worried about turning away GT's , as they may need to rely on them in future, but whilst you have a fair number of prototypes racing , these surely are the cars we want to see. Hearing about LMP1 prototypes being turned away ( RFH, Autocon, Goddard etc )just to fill the grid with endless GT3 porsches that you can see umpteen times a year in national GT racing makes me mad. Being English i love the Morgan and TVR , but i would rather watch and hear a Judd v10 or Ford V8 rip past me. Le Mans shouldn't be a car showroom event, Le Mans should be for the Fastest beasts on Earth. Rant Over. Sorry.
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Old 13 Apr 2004, 16:56 (Ref:938510)   #2
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I agree.
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Old 13 Apr 2004, 17:25 (Ref:938539)   #3
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You ain't gonna hear me complaining about that idea....

But I am sure there are plenty who will....
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Old 13 Apr 2004, 17:58 (Ref:938577)   #4
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So, we just drop the LM GT class? The suggestion being that its really just a filler class anyway, so it doesn't matter?

So does this filler class still get to race in the LMES and ALMS? Wouldn't make any sense, then really they wouldn't be representations of LM would they?

The ALMS would be a bit short though. Certainly well less then 20 cars, which IMHO is a bit short of interesting. Certainly greatly reduce the LMES as well.

While we are at it, why not just tick off Porsche, who is doing a nice little business selling LM-GT cars, and likely send them packing to another series.. F1? Grand-AM?

These weren't classes built on convenience to fill a gap from a lack of entries, they were a class built upon a demand, and a long standing history of mixed classes at LM.

Someone had to be the first to say this is a terrible idea.
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Old 13 Apr 2004, 18:25 (Ref:938614)   #5
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jhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Great points Fogelhund. I to do not like the idea of simply removing the GT class because they are seen as filler. Tell that to the face of one of the GT car owners. The great thing about Le Mans and the endurance racing classes is the mixture of cars and speeds. Without the GT class think of what the field would have been like during the lean Le Mans years. And certainly the ALMS would be less appealing and the coming LMES series as well. If anything, this only further proves that the selection process for Le Mans needs to be altered to assure that the best cars are present. I love the prototypes above all, but the GTS and GT cars have their place at the big race as well.
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Old 13 Apr 2004, 18:30 (Ref:938619)   #6
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jhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Speaking of Porsche, where do you think they will pull drivers from if/when they build a new prototype? Porsche has a nice list of factory 911 drivers in the GT class to pull from. That's right, GT. Massen and Luhr to mention just two. Luhr even hinted in his victory interview at Sebring that he is just waiting to make the move up so he can fight for overall victories. But don't think for a second that Porsche doesn't appreciate the GT category, which has brought them much success and revenue.
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Old 13 Apr 2004, 18:38 (Ref:938626)   #7
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Well, I guess you all thought I'd support the idea, well no, I don't. I still believe (and always will) that prototypes should dominate in top level sports car racing, but at Le Mans, the mix has to be maintained. The problem is, there are simply too many 911s.
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Old 13 Apr 2004, 18:49 (Ref:938641)   #8
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rdjones should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrdjones should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrdjones should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrdjones should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I would agree with you there Ayse. I for GT and remember it also produce some good racing over the last few years.
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Old 13 Apr 2004, 19:48 (Ref:938701)   #9
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...The problem is, there are simply too many 911s...
agree
just remove the 911s then

seriously, the quality of GT cars and teams increased year after year, and some of them (including Porsche) are realy wonderful racing cars now
the battle between Freisinger, TRG, BAM!-Orbit and WhiteLightning-Pertersen will probably be a great show not to miss
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Old 13 Apr 2004, 23:17 (Ref:938900)   #10
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I say double the size of the pits and allow at least 70 cars. That would help solve the problem.
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 02:00 (Ref:938963)   #11
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I don't believe the problem is too many Porsches. It's simply a lack of a viable alternative that is just as cost effective as the Porsche, and can run with them.

I'll agree with doc on the increasing of the pit size at LM.
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 02:10 (Ref:938968)   #12
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Indeed, give more cars an opportunity to run the race. That would seem to benifit all the series around the world as it would create more potential for their teams to feed into Le Mans, so it provide stature for these series and insure strong entries for them. Sports Car racing health around the world would be good for Le Mans.

I love the Morgan and the TVR, and they need to be part of the show. I hope that Japan sends in one or more cars, I would love to see Mazda back, even though I dislike the RX8
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 03:27 (Ref:938999)   #13
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yeah so what do u say to panoz who just spent a ton of money developing it's new esperante for theGT class, remember panoz is not a big manufacturer. but early test say the car is very fast. let's wait to see how does againts teh 911's and remember the new ferrari 360 GTC is a strong contender look at it's pace in the hands of risi at sebring. also GT racing provides some of the best competition to watch. look at ferrar porsche battle at sebring and last year even though it was mostly between the job porsches but the same could be said of the audi R8's in this tight economoy prototypes are too expensive to run most private teams can only afford GT cars. i say dropping the GT is a bad bad idea
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 11:26 (Ref:939305)   #14
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I think somebody is forgetting that there has to be room in the field for the little fella . Gt is in my opinion going to be one of the best scraps at LeMans this year !!!
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 12:07 (Ref:939354)   #15
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kdr should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridkdr should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
aren't the pits due to be enlarged to hold more cars?

Last edited by kdr; 14 Apr 2004 at 12:08.
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 12:17 (Ref:939368)   #16
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jase should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridjase should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Correct kdr, the pits a re being increased, but not to an extent that the number of cars on the track can be seen as unsafe. 70 cars at LM, there would never be any free track, you'd always be passing someone.

No, LM has a history of running the GT class cars, they should stay. Sooner or later the big companies will grow tired of LMP (god forbid). but if/when that happens, and you've told all the GT teams to Bu***r Off, then the ACO is stuffed.

The GT class provides some dam good battles. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 12:26 (Ref:939380)   #17
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Le Mans and sports car racing have much bigger problems than too many GT cars. First we need the new prototypes to take off, then we need GTS to get sorted. GT is arguably the healthiest class.
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 12:43 (Ref:939393)   #18
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gi_gav should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridgi_gav should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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First we need the new prototypes to take off
i thought we'd spent long enough making sure the prototypes don't take off...

I also think GT is an intergral part of Le Mans and endurance racing in general, i simply can't see a valid reason for it not being there.

I have fond memories of about 9 in the morning, LM 2002, and watching the Freisinger and Racer's Group 911s battling like it was a sprint race...
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 12:48 (Ref:939404)   #19
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like this....
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911s.jpg  
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 14:00 (Ref:939469)   #20
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LC2guy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridLC2guy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Please don't think i opened this thread just to attack GT cars. I regularly attend British GT rounds, and Donnington's openers were stunners, but since my first visit to Le Mans in 1988 i have grown an appreciation of Sportscars as they should be, ie, thoroughbred, unique and amazingly powerfull. From what i remember, GT's WERE actually first invited as grid fillers, when Toyota and Peugeout were the only interested parties. They again got turned away when the top classes ( prototypes and GTS ) gained strength in 1999. See Link here.
http://racingsportscars.t35.com/phot...999-06-13e.jpg
My point is that once , as some suggest, the top classes wain, GT cars will again come out of the woodwork to race at the biggest race in the world, but whilst there are enough Top class cars, they don't need to be allocated 15 spots as they occupy this year. RFH and other prototype teams have invested far more ( i imagine ) in their cars than the GT off the shelf teams have, and must feel absolutely gutted to miss out to an endless list of Porsches. If GT must exist at Le Mans, give the class 6-8 spots, not 15. This is only my personal viewpoint and i don't mean to offend anyone. Anyway, who cares, Group C will again be present in 8 weeks time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 14:19 (Ref:939487)   #21
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gi_gav should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridgi_gav should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'd agree with you there LC2guy, in that GT ought to be downsized if suitably competitive prototypes (especially the likes of the RfH Dome) are available.

I just wouldn't agree with ending GTs completely
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 14:34 (Ref:939502)   #22
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LC2guy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridLC2guy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
With the benefit of hindsight, i should have used the word downsize NOT drop. Still, its opened a healthy debate. Here's another, how about next year, all cars refused for the 24 hours get invited to participate in a 2 hour race on the Saturday morning , replacing or even running alongside the historics. Not what they might want, but if the ACO offer automatic places to the following years 24 hours, it would be worth going .
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 15:43 (Ref:939551)   #23
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kdr should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridkdr should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
nah...lets have the formula french cars back that ran in the warm-up to the 2002 race - easily the most eventful(or funny)race i've ever seen!

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Old 14 Apr 2004, 17:03 (Ref:939619)   #24
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Perhaps we should have a warm-up race for all those teams/cars who didn't get an entry to the race proper........
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 18:34 (Ref:939701)   #25
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and what a field that could be !
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