[Magazines] Autosport Magazine - Your Opinions (merged)

[Adam43]

Originally posted by PaulSands
ouch

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by PaulSands
"Jolly Bad Show by Autosport" or "I Say Chaps That's Just Not Cricket"

Yes, that's more like it Paul.
See, you will fit in with us at Goodwood!

[mattmarvell]

So the orignal poster is into photography of motorsport - so i guess my question is if he happans to take a picture of a crash (by accident you understand)and the driver walks away - no one else has taken a photo of this event - would he sell it if someone offerd him the money ..

[spider]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
What like

Autosport Finally Hits The Gutter

There's no such thing as bad publicity Adam! They won't have much of a fall-out on sales, and I'm quite confident it'll work. I'm not happy about them doing it, as I'm not a lover of huge crashes etc, but it'll work. Crashes are interesting, and interest breeds demand, so expect sales to go up.

Having one-line front cover titles that sum up a situation quickly, and in a catchy way does work, even though I do cringe at some of them! Autosport really have a monopoly, so they can really do what they want.

[foreversideways]

Diz. Where do you get this stuff from ??, do you have a room full of old Autosports or a photographic memory . I think the Autosport has only gone along the same path as many publications who believe that their public have the attention span of a NAT. It is suggested that the play station generation can no longer be bothered to read informative articles as they do not have the attention span. In my experience this is rubbish, i know many intellegent young people who voice exactly the same opions as us more mature guys. Also i do think that there should be far more coverage given to club motorsport. And while i am on about it BIGGER PRINTING

[Andrew Kitson]

Ouch again Paul?

[spider]

Foreversideways I agree. Got to admit, I love stats, I love detailed writing in the articles themselves. I understand the supplements to attract new readers, and the front cover that needs to stand out with IMPACT titles, but when I'm inside the mag I want detail!

One thing that does get up my nose, besides pollen (ruddy hayfever!), is that I usually feel let down that the f/cover will say something like DRIVER X COULD MOVE TO Y, why it should, could, would happen etc and then the HEADLINE piece, the main reason for buying the mag, is only 2 pages long, with a huge picture, and less than 300 words with no quotes for some of the stories, just a small news piece which is over in a 1 minute read and goes into no detail as it's just rumours. That annoys me.

The headline piece should surely be over at least 4 pages, in the centre of the mag, with a BIG feature on it? Just my opinion...

[eddsc]

"...a spectacular accident will get everyone pointing at the screen and shouting," says Autosport's Editor, in justifying this week's feature. "...the drama they (crashes) cause is part of its appeal."
I just don't agree with either of those statements.
MC

[Ian Sowman]

News in the centre of the mag is a no go for production reasons...

[spider]

Ok, from page 20 onwards - after the news, letters page, Roebuck column, but not at the very beginning of the mag...

[foreversideways]

I call it the Could, Would if, Might do syndrome. All news is full of it today. At Old Trafford we say they are only a United player when they run out on the pitch in a red shirt. Why try and find news, when you can make it up

[PaulSands]

Originally posted by mattmarvell
So the orignal poster is into photography of motorsport - so i guess my question is if he happans to take a picture of a crash (by accident you understand)and the driver walks away - no one else has taken a photo of this event - would he sell it if someone offerd him the money ..

that would depend I'm a bit funny about crashes...I see a difference between reportage of an event and the gratuitous use of such images long afterwards

[diz]

Originally posted by foreversideways
Diz. Where do you get this stuff from ??, do you have a room full of old Autosports or a photographic memory

Ray, Just a weird sense of humour. I don't keep old copies any more. I used to when the mag was worth reading. Nowadays it is quickly scanned. Roebuck, Pye, quick flick through the motor homes and transporters section [sorry classifieds] onto the paltry club bit at the back and into the bin. It used to be a full weeks read, but nowadays it might just as well be an insert in your local giveaway paper. Pick it up off the floor and bin it.
Oh for the days when the likes of Ian Titchmarsh gave comprehensive reports on club meetings. Pete Lyons was brilliant with the F1 stuff - before that became nothing more than a business. If there was a good battle for 8th, 9th and 10th at a Lydden clubbie, you could read about it. And MN was good as well. I used to think their freelance bloke who did north and midlands clubbies - plus every Mondello one year was excellent. Who was he again? Ah yes, I.A.S.
Happy days.
I'm getting all nostalgic now, but even nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

[mattmarvell]

Originally posted by PaulSands
that would depend I'm a bit funny about crashes...I see a difference between reportage of an event and the gratuitous use of such images long afterwards

But it's still history - it happened .
the only time I’ve ever been slightly taken aback by motor sport and the media was watching Eurosport about 11 years ago and for some reason they showed G.Villeneuve being flung against a fence - and i'd never seen that footage before.

And regarding pictures in autosport today - some people may go deeper and research up on what happened in that event .

[Knowlesy]

I much preferred Autosport when it had more actual readable content.

I have the entire 1992 season on hand and yes, a lot was black and white, BUT it had far superior race reports and coverage of more events.

And it was half the price it is now.

Even the letters were more interesting.

Nowadays it's all gloss and glitz with not so much content. You feel like you're paying for a catalogue.

However i have to get it, because there is nothing else. Motorsport news is good but it's a newspaper and can't really be stored for long.

As for this crash thing today.....it doesn't offend me at all. However, what I will say is that it smacks as sensationalism in the extreme and I'd rather there was a bigger race report. Or give the national motorsport a good spread.

On this note of the commercialism of Autosport. Motorpsort, another of my faves, is changing it's look from next month. It will now be a white cover with a giant pic and 3 sub-pics. Big titles and a horrible luminous logo. Needless to say, it just isn't Motorsport and i expect this will go downhill as well.

I realise Autosport has to sell but for gods sake, did they really sell that badly when they were a good read?

John McIlroy, get online now and explain yourself!

[PaulSands]

Thats more my point...why did they feel it was necessary?

[Knowlesy]

We will probably never know.

[Fireblade]

Originally posted by ensign14
...why buy Autosport when you can get most results gratis on the Net?

Yes I tried that approach and was quite happy with it until I dropped my laptop in the bath one Thursday night.lol.

I went back to the previous method and bought the paper copy. Much easier to read in the bath. And easier to dry out shopuld it get dropped in.

Seriously though I do think it has gone downhill of recent although I did try to get used to the new layout.

Gregor Grant and John Bolster must be spinning in their graves.

[John McIlroy]

Hi all,

Why did we print it? For the reasons I outlined in my leader column. But when people on this thread have stated that they apparently don't even look when there's an accident (I know I certainly do), then I didn't expect it to receive a positive response from ten-tenths users.

Is it sensationalist? It probably is. Does it celebrate death? No.

Yes, I will admit it, it's probably designed to attract readers who'll pick the magazine off the shelf and get interested in motorsport. I'm not really about to apologise for that - as I've said here countless times before, we are a business and have to exist as such. Encouraging people to pick you off the shelf is just a part of that - hence the flourescent orange.

As for our relations to founding editors, I'm afraid that I can boast neither an intricate knowledge of transmission systems or a deerstalker. But I do care passionately about the title. That is, pure and simple, the only reason why I have even attemped to reply to the now-regular barrage of abuse on ten-tenths. When we last relaunched the mag in March, I came on and responded to people, but made the point that after a certain amount of time it becomes self-defeating. I can only repeat those sentiments....

Incidentally, our last price rise was on February 7 2002, almost two and a half years ago.

Will continue to read the comments on ten-tenths with interest, nevertheless.

Regards,

John

[Knowlesy]

Well by all means make bright covers and all that, but for gawds sake, give us more readable content. Shrink the pictures a bit. Nobody will mind.

You run the risk of turning into Max Power.

[Jaxs]

Dear old Autosport... it's gone the same way as lots of techie publication,there is no insider knowledge, friends of the race team owners, it's about onlookers and journos chatting to other journos, the exploded view of engines and gearbox, gone, the Technical reports, gone..... the scribes have been de-skilled.

The ratio of written matter to photographs .. well it used to be a photograph to emphasis a point, now it's to fill space and don't they do that well.

Road tests, with John Bolster, chased him thro the lanes on the way to Brands one year, good fun...and the hi breed vehicles where have they all gone... but the quality motor sport analysis has disappeared.... all glitter and gloss with no substance.

I gave up buying it about 5 years ago and I don't think it's improved since then.

[diz]

Originally posted by John McIlroy
That is, pure and simple, the only reason why I have even attemped to reply to the now-regular barrage of abuse on ten-tenths. Will continue to read the comments on ten-tenths with interest, nevertheless.

Originally posted by knowlesy Well by all means make bright covers and all that, but for gawds sake, give us more readable content. Shrink the pictures a bit. Nobody will mind.

You run the risk of turning into Max Power.

John,
Taking a lot of the ranting out of this - and previous threads - knowlsey has summed the main problem up and given you the answer. 'shrink the pictures ... more readable content'
That should do it. Turn Autosport back into a magazine. Report the facts - as many as you can squeeze in. You have enough wordsmiths on the payroll, let them ply their trade.
Look at this weeks issue. Just one example on Pg128/129. The three small car shots are enough. The big shot of MAWP has stopped Marcus giving it large on the words. If he has already said all he needs to say, why not forget the big picture and use the spare page that creates to cover maybe ten other news items? Ah yes, news items - happy days.

[Andrew Kitson]

In response to Jaxs comment about cut-away drawings, to be fair to Autosport it is very difficult to get the type of cut-away or exploded technical illustration of a contemporary racing car. Theo Page did a great job in the magazine in the 50s and 60s. Beautiful work! It was he and Michael Turner who influenced me to become a motorsport artist. But my training was as a technical illustrator and I produced this kind of cut-away work for Lola, Hewland and many road car manufacturers. I know what is involved and the access to drawings, parts or simply to get the close up detail photos or measurements for reference 'under the skin' is very difficult to get with the paranoia down the modern pit-lane. I've been in trouble with mechanics and teams many times 'going in' too close with the camera to get details for my work!

How Giorgio Piola manages to get the info he needs for his F1 'tech focus' drawings is beyond me. He knows everybody in the paddock and has been doing it for years but the teams are very 'touchy' with anyone with a camera in the garage. The aero packages on the cars change so often and quickly - he is always on the case. It would be interesting to see if he could get enough info to do the whole car. I chatted to him once about them at a GP, but he had to rush off to finish his latest drawing in his hotel room to meet print deadlines. He still uses the trusty old faithful Rotring pen too by the look of it, no computer programme. I reckon ( but may be wrong )that he supplies the line drawing and the colour is added in 'photoshop' later by the magazine art department.

This is one area where Autosport is as it was, but in a modern way considering the limited access to technical details. But more of this quality please in other areas?

[Knowlesy]

Yes, Autosport can't be held accountable for the limited access to the cars. Absolutely fair point.

[John McIlroy]

Hi everyone,

Shrink the pictures... Include more text...

You'll be asking me to take out most of the colour next!

Autosport has always had to change to react to trends in publishing and it continues to do so. Whether or not you like it, better use of photography and more 'dip in and out' content is the trend in publishing. Diz, you say turn Autosport into a magazine. That's precisely what we're trying to do. Reducing the size and number of pictures and merely running entire pages of text will achieve the exact opposite.

I'll start comparing the mag to Max Power when we feature far more four-letter words and considerably more nipples. You can see precisely the sort of situation that I mentioned earlier - the sort of thing that frustrates me about this forum. Bigger pictures = Max Power. I mean, have you seriously looked at a copy of Max recently?! Sorry, but that comparison is utter, pure, unadulterated nonsense.

Incidentally, the whole point of National Focus features like Marcus's test is to get more people interested in National motorsport. Wall-to-wall news stories will hardly encourage people to want to read about national motorsport, will they? And I'm not about to encourage Marcus to "get 'em out" for a Max Power-esque photoshoot! :-)

Hmm methinks I'm caught in a 'We want old Autosport back' discussion here. I'd love it if deadlines could be ignored, page counts could go up and down depending on the journalist's whim, pictures could be reduced to postage stamps so we look like Private Eye or worse and we could have sporting trials on the front cover. But we can't.

All I can hope - and I seem to end up saying this at this point in every single ten-tenths discussion I've participated in and read - is that there is still enough of interest in there for you each week. If there's not, you won't buy the mag, I'll be wrong and we'll all probably be out of a job before we know it. I always take on board what people say and (you may not believe this but I'll say it anyway) it hurts when anyone criticises the mag. But at the same time, it's easy to encourage risks when you're throwing suggestions at an Internet forum and not worrying about your livelihood, eh?

John