[BTCC] BTCC 2020 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think if you just stuck the regular Swindon unit in there the car would be a complete dog relative to other RWD options.

Why so? If it generates the same power, and has the same CoG as the 3-series/Q50, why should it be any slower if set up properly?

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Why so? If it generates the same power, and has the same CoG as the 3-series/Q50, why should it be any slower if set up properly?

I'm inclined to agree - it would lose its huge advantage in the corners but it's achilles heel (straigtline speed) would also be lost - so lap time would roughly even out? (things are never quite that simple though)

[Sodemo]

It would then just be another RWD car only with worse aero than the BMW 330, Infinity etc. I could of course be proven wrong.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

It would then just be another RWD car only with worse aero than the BMW 330, Infinity etc. I could of course be proven wrong.

As previously:

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Not a perfect measure, but a good indication of cleanness through the air of the base models can be derived from the coefficient of drag and frontal area figures:

'Subaru claims a drag coefficient of 0.26 for the car, putting it in the same class as the BMW i8, Nissan GTR and new Jaguar XE.'
'Although it is an estate (wagon) car, it has a very strong drag coefficient'

[HopAlong]

If they switched to another model it would likely have the same issues as now. If you look back at other seasons the car is slow in a straight line but nowhere near as bad as this year for whatever reason. The Subaru seems to have gone better at its crap tracks. It would be interesting to know why BMR, Cicely, Motorbase and PMR haven't been as good as last year, the old Honda is still up there, so it shouldn't a hardware issue.

[HopAlong]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

As previously:




'Subaru claims a drag coefficient of 0.26 for the car, putting it in the same class as the BMW i8, Nissan GTR and new Jaguar XE.'
'Although it is an estate (wagon) car, it has a very strong drag coefficient'

There is an article in Racecar Engineering on the Subaru Levorg with the lead designer Carl Faux saying how it had more drag then expected.

I've just checked and the racecar has a Cd of 0.411.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by HopAlong

There is an article in Racecar Engineering on the Subaru Levorg with the lead designer Carl Faux saying how it had more drag then expected.

I've just checked and the racecar has a Cd of 0.411.

I appreciate that the NGTC builds will have a higher Cd than the road version (for obvious reasons). Do you know how that compares to the Cd of the NGTC versions of the 3-series or Q50?

[Pickles]

Wonder where Jake will be next year?

https://www.facebook.com/16317398051...0271752803298/

[Alfisti]

Subaru are gone. If those cars are on the grid they will be as independent entries. The brand is utterly irrelevant in the UK, given sales volume I do not see it making a penny. The days of boys and girls lusting after McRae and Burns replicas are long gone.

[Spanner monkey]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Presumably ditching the boxer engine would also affect the CoG? Be interesting if another team did take the Levorg on and run them with the TOCA engines...

The reference car for rear wheel drive is now the Infinity now that Moffat had put a Toca engine in it.
So the Subaru/Bmw had to adjust their C.O.G once they had entered this car

[HopAlong]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I appreciate that the NGTC builds will have a higher Cd than the road version (for obvious reasons). Do you know how that compares to the Cd of the NGTC versions of the 3-series or Q50?

Unfortunately not.

Its a shame I missed the other issues as it looks like it was a multi part and I only have the part with them using race tape to see its effect on drag, it s CD is actually 0.441 (I think I said 0.411). The is an issue with the Mercedes but sadly it only has delta values.

I think one of the reasons for the Subaru's drag is high (apart form the bonnet scoop) compared to the BMW is the fact the Subaru is narrower. Both road cars have the same drag (0.26), but the BMW only has to be made 63mm wider to the NGTC width of 1890mm, where as the Subaru has to be made 110mm wider.

I also found a table in an older magazine comparing superkarts to other racecars and it has "2005 BTCC" in the list and they were rated at a Cd of 0.354 to 0.431.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by HopAlong

Both road cars have the same drag (0.26), but the BMW only has to be made 63mm wider to the NGTC width of 1890mm, where as the Subaru has to be made 110mm wider.

This, I think, may be something that is not fully appreciated when cars are being selected to turn into NGTC models.

There would seem to be a logic in selecting as wide a base car as possible, to retain as much of the Cd that has been developed by the manufacturer.

[Mike Harte]

If, as has been suggested by various people, Sutton joins Moffat and uses it as a springboard to further his career, would it be a case of to infinity and beyond?

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

If, as has been suggested by various people, Sutton joins Moffat and uses it as a springboard to further his career, would it be a case of to infinity and beyond?

Maybe the BTCC could become The Disney Toy Story BTCC. Plenty of tantrums and toys getting thrown out of prams, ideal match!

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by HopAlong

Unfortunately not.

Its a shame I missed the other issues as it looks like it was a multi part and I only have the part with them using race tape to see its effect on drag, it s CD is actually 0.441 (I think I said 0.411). The is an issue with the Mercedes but sadly it only has delta values.

I think one of the reasons for the Subaru's drag is high (apart form the bonnet scoop) compared to the BMW is the fact the Subaru is narrower. Both road cars have the same drag (0.26), but the BMW only has to be made 63mm wider to the NGTC width of 1890mm, where as the Subaru has to be made 110mm wider.

I also found a table in an older magazine comparing superkarts to other racecars and it has "2005 BTCC" in the list and they were rated at a Cd of 0.354 to 0.431.

This is why ive never really liked the bodywork rules of NGTC ruleset. They have to "balloon up" a smaller car with often quite ugly looking fibreglass arches in order to fit the min width rules. The S2000 and supertouring rules were the best. I know S2000 had massively increased arches too, but it was a percentage width of the whole car, the same with supertouring. In the case of ST they just massaged the width of the arches by a few cm and they looked much much better. You could take a distincily average looking 90s road saloon, put a ST kit on it and it instantly looked badass. I often think when they stick the NGTC kits on the road cars, it does the opposite, I personally think many of them look worse.

[Alfisti]

...and I thought it was just me!

They're only two current cars that I love the shape of the BTCC racer - the Audi A3 and the venerable CC. De-livery the CC to plain black and it's awesone.

Really dislike the Subaru and Astra in particular... the road cars are understated and elegant, the racers just too bloaty for my liking.

The Merc looks like a fat blob in both road and race forms.

[touringlegend]

Goodyear to be tyre supplier from 2020 http://www.btcc.net/2019/10/12/goody...-through-btcc/

[Robin Marriott]

Goodyear announced as tyre supplier, which means nothing at all other than a branding change, as Goodyear own Dunlop anyway.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Goodyear to be tyre supplier from 2020 http://www.btcc.net/2019/10/12/goody...-through-btcc/

Goodyear and Dunlop is the same company. Will still be Butler and co, same tyres, different badges.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Goodyear and Dunlop is the same company. Will still be Butler and co, same tyres, different badges.

Maybe they should call it the John Bull British Touring Car Championship? Or am I the only one on here old enough to remember that make of tyres (and know that I was taken over by Dunlop years ago).

[jsmee]

Crees just said on trackside comms that he will definitely back on the grid in 2020.

Unless i misheard!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Akrapovic]

LMP2 switched from Dunlop to Goodyear and it wasn't just a rebranding exercise. Those are actually different, new tyres.

[S griffin]

Nice to see a successful tyre company back in motorsport, first with LMP2, now with the BTCC. They've given so much to the sport

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

Goodyear announced as tyre supplier, which means nothing at all other than a branding change, as Goodyear own Dunlop anyway.

Nothing except a huge vote of confidence in the BTCC from a World Wide brand.....

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by jsmee

Crees just said on trackside comms that he will definitely back on the grid in 2020.

Unless i misheard!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Dagnabbt, pesky kids!

Pretend you didn't here that, otherwise it'll ruin the suspense of the driver announcement hash tag fest...